Ahh Eclipse, its not all gloom and doom just yet you know...

On population, its a global issue, which needs addressing.
We've gone from 1.5 billion to 6.5 billion in 100 years.
Nobody even seems to question why we need to go to 10 billion.

Those 80 million a year added, are surely a problem, but
nobody seems to care. They are mainly in the poorest countries
btw.

The population of Sydney problem is small, in comparison to the
global problem. Given Indonesia's birthrate, in 50 years they
will have 500 million people to deal with. I doubt if they
would just die quietly, whilst we in Aus live in relative
abundance.

The best thing to do really, is to live sustainably. I grow
grains, meat, biodiesel etc. Looks like those city slickers
who are living unsustainably, might have to cough up and
pay more, for what they have previously bought for a relative
pittance.

I doubt if the West will be the big losers. People will
simply adjust. I bet you could reduce your fuel consumption
by 50%, if you tried.

The third world will be the losers. No more having 8 babies,
they might just starve if you do. From a philosophical
point of view, as its unsustainable, adapting to making
things sustainable, is not such a bad thing in the bigger
scheme of things.

Ted

Complex life emerged on Earth about 500 million years ago. Can you comprehend that number? Humanoids became humans as we understand that word to mean about 150,000 years ago. Still a big number relative to your life expectancy.

So - Ted, this is what is going to happen with 100% certainty. We humans are on our last legs and will be gone within 1000 years [maybe in only a fraction of that time] i.e. in our 150,000 year history, we have passed the 149 digit in a series of 150 digits and on our way to meet 150. After that the planet will continue on.

Some say that a few humans will survive as small mammals did after the megafauna became extinct. If they do, then existence will be very precarious as they will have only the basic technology. For awile there will be leftover tools such as iron axes and spades. Eventually without the technology to make more, they would have gone. We are so weak relative to other species without technology. The species could be snuffed out as it came very close to being once in Africa as mitachondrial DNA has revealed.

An important point is raised here. For over 99% of humans who have lived prior to the 20th century and for over 70% of those who have been born since 1900, life has been brutal. If we are worried about the price of petrol in 10 years time, then the circle of our vision has a very small diameter.

Our time span on this planet in the big picture can be summed up as: arrived a second ago, here for a second and gone by the next second. The Sun will rise and set as it did long before we appeared and will rise and set long after we have disappeared.

Ted. Just enjoy today.

healthwatcher

We have created an incredible social system that works on the basis that the more we consume the better off we become.

This is fine while there is plenty to consume but once we start to run out of resources or when the consumption of resources starts to lead to runaway bad effects like global warming then the system that rewards consumption needs to be rethought.

Let us start with the premise that the less we consume the better off we are? That is those that consume more resources that have a limit or whose consumption is bad for the rest of us should pay for the privilege and those payments should go to those that consume less.

Do that and we will soon see a change in consumption patterns and we will get a positive feedback loop that will start to reduce our rates of consumption as people move to the things that are "cheaper" and make them "better off".

We have to be more proactive than just simply making something more expensive like carbon taxes. We have to make those that - for example - do not have children get paid from those that do.

Healthwatcher, that's not good enough for me.

"Just enjoy to day" is a selfish attitude that shares no real sense of responsibility to the next generation. We are a self-aware species with an incredibly powerful evolutionary tool called "culture". Ted was doing his best to refine that tool. Our culture can change the way our species behaves in the blink of an eye, evolutionary speaking. We can rezone our cities for New Urbanism and around Transit Orientated Developments, and just the act of rezoning will have enormous benefit. Our cities are always changing... so what if the failed suburban experiment in mono-purpose blandness as far as the eye can see is not replaced when each individual suburban home reaches the end of it's practical life? What if, in normal rates of attrition, those lots are gradually demolished and returned to local agricultural land, and the former owners compensated in some fashion with a part-grant / tax relief to move to a New Urbanism district? What if we rezoned our cities around dense and diverse New Urbanism principles, and permanently saved about 12-15% of our domestic oil use in just a decade of "normal" attrition rates?

This can be done. It only requires the legal imperative.

What exactly is a "legal imperative"?

"What if we rezoned our cities around dense and diverse New Urbanism principles, and permanently saved about 12-15% of our domestic oil use in just a decade of "normal" attrition rates?
This can be done. It only requires the legal imperative."

Eclipse, quite frankly I can't think of anything scarier, then
the Chardonay set dreaming up yet more policies and trying
to enforce them legally!

Who said that high density living is the answer? If you
read "The Human Zoo", basically thats what you have and its
solved nothing, just created more problems.

If you think back 50 years or so, people actually lived
quite energy efficiently. On their quarter acre block,
people would grow their own veggie patch, grew some fruit,
run a few chooks, have a rainwater tank. Kids would cycle
to school or to the shops, people worked not far from home.
The local community was the focus. Longer distances, people
used the trains.

What high density living has created, is very much a human
zoo. Neurotic people in their tiny cages, more crime,
no space for kids to play, more energy wasted on all sorts
of things, to deal with their neurosis. Long term its also
totally unsustainable. Cut the power to a big city for
a few days and its back to laws of the jungle really.

So high density cities are really the problem, not the answer.