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The Forum > Article Comments > We can't go on living like this > Comments

We can't go on living like this : Comments

By Ted Trainer, published 20/4/2007

We say we want to save the environment, have peace, and eliminate poverty. And we do - but only until we see what this requires.

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Ted, I'm wondering just how many reply posts you'll get to your article. Yes, no doubt you'll get at least one skeptic who is somewhere out in cyberspace enjoying the "good life" and who will, just as you predict, hang onto that lifestyle like most others until all hope for our planet is lost, but the truth is that you may not get many posts because anyone with half a brain must sense that the end of civilisation as we know it lurks just around the corner. No need to reply. Nothing more to say!
I am one with you in attempting to live in a much more sustainable fashion. I bought a bush block and built my home many years ago (for reasons other than sustainablity) and have in the past few years attempted to make it self sufficient. It's coming along well, but one thing continues to plague me and it's this...
What happens when food scarcity begins to bite hard (pardon the pun) and society begins to break down? Do you believe that eco-communities will survive the onslaught of savage hoards as they move in starving masses across the landscape like locusts devouring all the food and the stored provisions of foward thinking people like yourself?
And just how do we go about altering the minds of those who are at present reasonably well off? The suggestion of a lifestyle very much different to the one they're accustomed to is akin to threatening them with a shotgun. I've tried it and I've found it's much better to speak only to the committed few, although I do see signs that people are starting to wake up, yet they lack the skill to change the future nightmare into something more practical.
Personally, I can't think of anything better than a removal from our consumeristic present and into a much more simple future. I wish you well in spreading your message.
Posted by Aime, Friday, 20 April 2007 9:58:45 AM
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Ted Trainer says
"The Simpler Way could be a far more satisfying way of life. Consider being able to live well on two days work for money a week, without any threat of unemployment, or insecurity in old age, in a supportive community. "

yes, I'll be in that, where do I sign up!

It appears our shortage of water in the Murray Darling Basin is going to raise food prices in the next 12 months. In 2006 when we lost less that half the banana crop, banana prices rose 5 times, so when we lose half our food crops due to drought then fresh fruit, vegetables and milk will be luxury items
Posted by billie, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:02:42 AM
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Well this is the biggest load of drivel I have read on these forums yet. Thankfully even the most stupid people will see this as such. This guy is obviously a Paul Erlich wannabe (and Erlich only predicted the deaths of 100s of millions, ol' Trainer sounds like he is going for 3 billion). Mass famine and economic collapse has been predicted by numerous doomsayers throughout human history, in reality things are on the improve.

He also brings into his alarmist piece the terrifying consequences of peak oil. Does he really believe that society will crumble becuase we run out of oil (which may be much further down the line than he thinks)? No, very unlikely. Other fuels and energy sources, a lot already in development thanks to gobal warming hysteria, will replace fossil fuels and power our future societies.

Trainer also sees "disturbing climactic effects" from our polluting ways. He seems quite happy to attribute this any other negative to our indulgent lifestyles. I wonder what he would have made of any of the numerous climate transitions of the recent past.

He finishes his rant by turning on his readers with a good old "i told you so!" even though none of his predictions seem likely to be fulfilled. Well Ted you won't be around for me to give you one back.
Posted by alzo, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:17:07 AM
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"He also brings into his alarmist piece the terrifying consequences of peak oil. Does he really believe that society will crumble becuase we run out of oil (which may be much further down the line than he thinks)?"
Alzo, I'm quite sure you've written your reply simply as bait to draw out a million reasons as to why Ted Trainer is correct, but I'll bite anyway!
Alzo, if you think peak oil is some kind of joke, I'm predicting it will be you who has egg on their face before too much longer. The World's population of 6.5 billion has only been made possible through the use of fossil fuels. It should be closer to 2.5 billion at best and would be at that level were it not for the discovery of oil. Society cannot go on with "business as usual" without the "black gold."
If you'd done your homework on the peaking of oil (with gas and coal to follow closely) you'd know that science won't save us this time. The sheer scale needed to replace our present oil driven way of life is not possible without a long transition phase to a more sustainable way of life and we don't have that long. Practically everything you look around at and see is here simply because of fossil fuel and oil in particular, but I'm guessing you already know that. Nobody can be that cocooned from reality.
Humanity has, as an entity, only arrived at this place in history simply because of unrelenting greed. Our present rate of depletion is very much unsustainable. Even "blind Freddy" can see that we cannot continue down this path.
Yes, doomsayers have come and gone and that's the unfortunate part. Humanity is too used to hearing someone cry "wolf" but this time the wolf is at the door and people just like you alzo, are all too keen to open it.
Ok, I've bitten and I won't bite any more on this post. I'll let others more adept in science and writing do that for me.
Wildcat.
Posted by Aime, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:46:44 AM
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Aime...I knew wouldn't be able to resist after i read your first comment that has a certain pious tone about it. I'm glad you won't be biting again as its pretty hard to logically argue with enviro zealots.

I didn't actually say anywhere that peak oil is "some kind of joke" or that it won't happen. I said that it won't be the end of society or civilisation as we know it. There will be changes yes but nothing as radical as what Trainer is proposing. Or you for that matter with your "onslaught of savage hoards as they move in starving masses across the landscape like locusts devouring all the food and the stored provisions of foward thinking people"....wow talk about biblical.
Manking will simply find another thing to burn or produce energy from.

As for peak coal, present reserves put it at about 600 years supply. Hardly soon is it? Do you really think we will be burning coal for energy in 600 years? Or even 100?

So Trainer is not a doomsayer? How about you? Comments like "but this time the wolf is at the door" seems to say otherwise. I guess you'll come and go too.

"I'll let others more adept in science and writing do that for me"....good idea, maybe Trainer should follow your advice.
Posted by alzo, Friday, 20 April 2007 11:35:46 AM
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any fool can see what needs to be done. the hard part is getting it done by human beings. even greenies just don't get it: the problem isn't ecological, it's political. worse than that, political is just the surface manifestation of biological drives not visibly within social control.

nature has a solution for the onrushing ecological disaster, the human race will be pruned back radically. the means may be gentle, the old standbys of famine, disease, and war. or the means may be final: a catastrophic shift in climate due to some metastable threshhold being crossed.

either way, a simpler lifestyle will result.
Posted by DEMOS, Friday, 20 April 2007 11:38:09 AM
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