I agree, excellent comment Mick V.

Also inclined to agree with TR: while I'm roughly of the same believing ilk as Kevin Rudd and Peter Costello, I'm ready to object if they exploit their church attendance just because they've recently discovered that it might have some votes in it.

TR - No, this is definately your space in this tiny cyber corner of the universe (24/4). You are welcome to waste time here because it keeps you away from any real human exchange where opinions can be expressed face-to-face.

Please keep tapping away at that pc and stay away from the real world!

John Howard probably rolls endlessly at night worrying about the next election. But at least he doesn't have to worry about 'TR', because you are here in this intellectual wasteland and not in his face!

I only visit this site rarely, hoping to be surprised by some honest intellectual thought. No luck so far.

Talk is embarrassingly cheap.

Aqvarvis I am simply pointing out that in Howards case , not to single him out, has ignored Australias pollution problem , even to the point of denying climate change and then denying the links between atmospheric pollution and climate change and thus has contributed to the aridification of Southern Australia, has let the Murray Darling Basin collapse and South Western Australia salinify and western Queensland erode , instead he prays to a pretend god.

That aside Christianity is itself a form of violence , obviously Christians will deny this but I content that Howard as an example for instance did not apologise to Indigenous Australia , not because Howard is intrinsically evil as a person but because he is Christian. Christianity demands power over others , this includes never being able to meaningfully admit the ideology, dogma and values of Christianity are wrong. Christianity was the core ideolgy behind the stolen generation , it was the imputus and the reasoning for smashing Indigenous culture. Indigenous Australia was never a threat to the injected European culture which took over this continent. Indigenous culture however was a direct threat to Christian ideology , as long as alternatives exist monotheism is threatened. So like gays, the unwed , pagans , indigenous cultures in reach of missionaries, youth culture , free thought , now science and many more Christianity sets out to destroy and conquer to gain supremecy over all. Islam is doing the same thing in Islamic nations. When a Prime Minister is praying to his god he is rejecting the nation which does not accept his idol and so it is exclusionism a form of violence.

Howard by praying is beating the chest of christianity. Not to single out Howard , like most Christians I am sure he is ignorant of the violence he emits through such acts and as god is essentially the ego he would defend his actions as somehow universally valid

It is why Howard should leave his superstition at home, Howard as an example to be fair he has not been the most 'Rabid' Christian although the ugliness of Christian values and Judgement have swayed him from time to time.

I do expect worst from Rudd, he is out of the closet and the similarity of what he promises to the Liberal Party demonstrate that his Christian beliefs bond him to archaic ideals and will too translate into a violence of policy dictates no differe4nt than Howards.

If a politician belongs to a religious sect such as the Church of England , the Catholic church or Le Vay Satanism then it is a conflict of interest. I cannot see how it is different to belonging to a corporation or a national sports club which receives government grants.

Praying for rain. Howard has done nothing about Climate Change and the aridification of Southern Australia , the Murray Darling collapse, the salinification of the South West, the erosion of Western Queensland and the collapse of Biodiversity along the east coast. Climate Change was well understood by the time Hawke took office and so Howard cannot take the total blame for this countries woes. Australian Governments have been putting faith before fact for decades now we are at a cross roads in the slowing the damage caused by policies which have allowed this disater to happen we need politicians who will turn to tools and knowledge to begin repairing the damage. The shamanism and fancy dancing that praying for rain is is bad enough but keeping on the old ways in the hope that some magic deity will save the world is worst.

This is not 1307 this is 2007.

'I only visit this site rarely, hoping to be surprised by some honest intellectual thought. No luck so far.'

Well, obviously not that rarely Ian Mack. Neither have you crowded the forum with 'honest intellectual thought' of your own.

Go on, astound us all and write something constructive for a change. I dare you. I for one would love to be dazzled by your literary genius.

To West,
It is clear that you aren’t going to vote for John Howard this time. But you haven’t convinced me that a person is not worthy of election simply because of their faith. I think of the great leaders in our history who were people of sincere faith, such as Alfred Deakin, one of the founders of the Australian Constitution.