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The Forum > Article Comments > An uneasy marriage of necessity > Comments

An uneasy marriage of necessity : Comments

By Tony Coady, published 20/4/2007

Faith and politics can be unhappy bedfellows, but it is possible for them to coexist.

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Mick V, from a social science point of view, it could be said you are showing the view that I tried to point out was the view of John Locke, a balanced mixture of Golden Greek reasoning and the theocratic view of St Thomas Aquinas.

It is interesting that because Aquinas is classed by historians as both the greatest of philosophers as well as the greatest doctor of theology, most Christian bishops seem to rather forget him when preparing a Sermon.

In fact it could be said that both Christian teachers and Islamics still show wooden-headedness when it comes to Greek reasoning, refusing now to admit that without it we would both be
still in the Dark Ages - modern Islamics certainly more brain-dead about it than we are.

The simple fact is that faith is always a danger if we don't use reason to prove it.

It is also so interesting that morals do not seem to count much to find the truth, especially as the womanising French monk, Peter Abelard, after attending a college in Moorish Spain, wrote a Script called The
Search for Enquiry, which in fact was the lesson about reason which influenced St Thomas Aquinas many years later.
Posted by bushbred, Sunday, 22 April 2007 1:47:51 PM
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Religion and politics should never be mixed.

Religion is based on the bible

god created heaven and earth.

god created adam and eve

obviously adam and eve had children then what

how can we expect people in politics to shove this down our mouths without knowing that all religion is perversion.

We have people who follow this thus must be perverts due to how this has had to happen.

this is why we dont have choice

euthanasia
abortion
stem cell research

Or is it we are supposed to bed our own families to keep this going, is this not gods way.

Oh well you all much prefer deciet, lies and corruption so you may as well keep it.

now should i care well what the hell

ex army

ill think about it.

when you all starting to respect yourselves then things will change

and no i wont pay you off
or pay your membership.
Posted by tapp, Sunday, 22 April 2007 5:34:12 PM
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Last weeks episode of 'The Religion Report' (ABC radio) featured two pieces of classic monotheistic discrimination.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2007/1894022.htm

First of all there was the report about a Hindu women in Malaysia who was fighting a custody battle for her children with the local Sharia court because her husband had converted to Islam. Because of husband's conversion her rights as a non-Muslim women had been negated by legislation that is pro-Islamic and sexist.

The second feature was the on going war within the Anglican Church about the ordination of women and why they are not worthy enough in the eyes of God to lead their community. Mind you, this is considerably better than most Jewish or Islamic societies where the debate hasn’t even began at all and women are completely off the map when in comes to religious leadership.

These two instances of monotheistic discrimination stand in stark contrast to secular morality that sees no natural barrier to women having equal rights/access to their children or leading out in the general community or becoming CEO’s, Presidents or Prime Ministers. However, we will never see a women Pope or Imam.

Then there is the problem of homosexuality within monotheism. In most Islamic societies homosexuals are ostracised and treated brutally. Many Christian denominations still 'disfellowship' their gay parishioners.

Yes coach, conventional Judaism, Christianity and Islam has turned discrimination into an institutionalised art form. This is why religion and politics should never be mixed. Religious dogma sanctioned by the clergy rarely learn from their mistakes and are glacially slow to institute necessary reform.
Posted by TR, Sunday, 22 April 2007 8:41:28 PM
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Mick V wrote;

'However, it is equally silly to then go on and say that ‘the morality of an atheist and humanist is real because it is based on the scientific method’, as if people of faith can’t or don’t think scientifically.

Using good morals is not the monopoly of people of faith, and using good science is not the monopoly of atheists.'

I didn't say that monotheists can't think scientifically or rationally. But the mere fact that religious people do embrace science acts as a barrier against the discrimination, bigotry, and tribalism encouraged by the Torah, Bible and Koran.

When the Catholic Church had political power in Europe it carried out the Spanish Inquisition. When sceptics and free-thinkers finally challenged Catholic dogma in the 17th century its power slowly waned. Today the Pope no longer throws heretics into dungeons.

In modern times mad Islamic jihadists bomb and kill innocent civilians and Sydney Sheiks practice sexism because Islam has not yet had its own Enlightenment period. Hopefully one day Islam's own variety of rationalists will call into question Mohammad's violent and sexist ideology and dilute his religion to something more humane.
Posted by TR, Sunday, 22 April 2007 9:12:15 PM
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The prime minister urges us to pray for rain. Let us hope that he is our last scientifically illiterate PM. Miracles are impossible.

We know that every event has a cause and we know that nothing that happens violates the physical laws which we understand thoroughly and nothing that happens violates the laws of complexity which we will never understand as too many particles are involved [e.g. at what precise moment will the cloud above let down rain]. Nevertheless, they are laws as rock-solid as the physical laws. For example: every embryo if allowed to develop as it should [mother takes no drugs etc.] develops exactly along the same lines.

At the instant of creation all the energy which exists today was condensed almost to the size of a dimensionless point. Then it rapidly expanded [we will never know why] and as it did, the physical laws emerged to produce particles and then dictate how they related to one another. The important concept here is that of an expanding network of cause and effect where everything is linked to each other backwards in time.

We marvel at the success of this mechanism of inviolate interacting laws creating existence. At this instant we are on the surface of a an expanding network of cause and effect radiating outwards from time zero. The past has vanished but still sits there in the network as a type of virtual reality. The expanding surface of the network is always moving into the future. As this expansion can go only one way, the future also sits there in a type of virtual reality. The mechanism exists exactly as it is or there is no existence. All or nothing.

If there is a supernatural intelligence behind it all, then why would this intelligence stick a metaphorical finger into the mechanism in answer to a prayer and shatter the lot like a pinprick to a balloon
Posted by healthwatcher, Monday, 23 April 2007 7:36:17 AM
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Faith is really a politically correct word for self obsession. The exception from normal self centeredness is that faith is superstitiously Justified. There has been no instance in history where the mix of religion and politics has not led to what may be described as an evil state. At its best faith is psychopathic , at worst it is murderous.

Wether a person who is suffering delusions of superstition and can control his/her delusions depends on the strength of character of the individual. If a politician allows his/her faith to interfere with decisions and moral judgements then they are of weak character and should not be in that job. Faith is a great corrupter, it would as if a soldier in charge of a weapon has no control over his anger.

Howard praying for rain is particularly worrying as the climate change which is causing the aridification of Australia was a strong model 15 years ago and Howard came into office 15 years after anthropogenically created climate change was a certainty. Yet after doing nothing and leading Australia to disaster , which is what this aridity is ( and acting with leadership in the begining of his first term may have lessened the imact of climate change as it is strengthening ) Howard turns to the mumbo Jumbo of superstition hoping to evoke magic from a god which has yet to actually exist. Howard should be stepping down and take responsibility for his great share of the blame for this disaster instead he hides behind superstition.

What next? Howard should try sacrificing chickens to the Loas, certainly Abbotts theocratic attempts have failed because sacrificing the rights women have over their own bodies were not enough for the saints.
Posted by West, Monday, 23 April 2007 12:02:38 PM
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