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The Forum > Article Comments > Hicks: guilty means guilty, sort of ... > Comments

Hicks: guilty means guilty, sort of ... : Comments

By Mirko Bagaric, published 28/3/2007

Speculation about David Hicks' actual guilt is pointless.

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If by "leftie" you mean someone who believes in democracy and its institutions like due process and habeas corpus then I'm proud to be a"leftie".

If I was incarcerated in an illegal foreign prison I would like to think my government would go to bat for me.
That being an Australian meant something.

As for torture look up "Sensory Deprivation". The CIA research found this to be the most effective, quickest form of torture. They certainly know how to use it.
Lack of Vitamin D too has been implicated in all sorts of psychiatric and cognitive complaints.

This is from get Up:-

But because the evidence against David Hicks will never really be tested in a proper court,. . .
The Federal Government has diminished Australia by legitimising an unfair and illegal system, by allowing an Australian, guilty or innocent, to be imprisoned year after year without trial despite serious reports of mistreatment and abuse; by failing to do what America, its allies and even its adversaries around the world did, which is to say "no citizen of ours will be treated this way."

Our Government should stand shamed, not smirking.. . .

From the beginning, this campaign has been about the values and rights of our democracy,
. . .
No one should have to bargain with their liberty because their basic rights have been abandoned. David Hicks has still not been judged by a fair legal process, and he is still not home. The Military Commission circus is set to roll on over coming days, raising further concerns about the lawfulness of his expected imprisonment back home. We know what justice looks like, and we will not let those who claim to represent the values of our democracy forget.
Posted by michael2, Thursday, 29 March 2007 11:29:52 AM
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I just do not understand why someone like Hicks would identify so strongly with a war so far away from home?
Posted by vivy, Thursday, 29 March 2007 11:38:03 AM
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I'd like to know what it was that Hicks "confessed" to all those years ago. He was accused of aiding the enemy--but that was not a crime that applied to him. He was accused of spying on the US embassy in Afghanistan. It turned out there wasn't one at the time. He was accused of conspiracy to murder. That was dropped because there was no credible evidence. People claimed we was fighting against Australian troops. But it turns out that they were nowhere near him. What exactly did he confess to?

As to whether that confession was extorted by torture, it is hard to say. There was clearly something wrong with the "evidence" extracted from his fellow prisoners in relation to the above charges.

I know what crime he has confessed to now, though of course not the details. It is to be noted that it was not a crime under US law when he did it--though aiding Al Qa'ida was evil. One of the things those Second World War heroes fought against was retrospective criminalisation.
Posted by ozbib, Thursday, 29 March 2007 2:46:38 PM
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LIAM: EXCELLENT POST !

I would also like the same principles applied to the AWB cronies and the mob of politicians and bureaucrats who can be SHOWN to have "materially assisted a terrorist organisation".

I would also like to see US politicians and their henchmen summoned before the International Court of Justice for war crimes. I think the Germans have the right idea with "Rummy".
Posted by Iluvatar, Thursday, 29 March 2007 3:39:15 PM
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What I would really like to know is; just which Australian Law did Hicks break?
Nothing else.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:43:23 AM
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Grey: What?

Aqvarivs: The Americans, Canadians, Polish and German armies with the assistance of the UN are in Afghanistan because the place was bombed to high hell. The war was illegitimate.

Looking at the issue from an un-emotional perspective (something that people from both sides of this argument have trouble doing), the Americans invaded Afghanistan, a sovereign nation, and removed the ruling government. I agree with your premise that they were scum, but that does not excuse the Americans from breaking international law. The invasion of Afghanistan was illegal. There was not formal declaration of war against Afghanistan, the actions of the US was not about gaining territory, nor was it about protecting the people of Afghanistan. It was about the capture of Osama bin Laden and taking out a government that stood in the way of the US from doing so.

As such, the detaining of David Hicks by the invading army is also illegal.

So, although we may not like what David has stood for, and some may not like his religion (no, I am not a Muslim), this does not preclude someone from the basic rights and freedoms that most countries (including Australia and the USA) have committed themselves by signing both the Geneva Convention and the Nuremberg Principles.

Principle V of the Nuremburg Principles states : “Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law.” This has not been the case for David Hicks.

And I stand corrected. David Hicks was not captured by Pakistani soldiers, but neither was he captured by "Afghani" soldiers. David was captured by the Northern Alliance.
Posted by Kasra, Friday, 30 March 2007 3:13:20 PM
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