The current "Jewish firestorm" has now become something of a breezy farce. First, there was an angry response to the Loewenstein petition from the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, then a counter-petition from Michael Danby MP. In this week's "Jewish News" there is a letter from Yours Truly suggesting yet another petition calling on all protagonists to cool it, and a hilarious article by John Safran saying pretty much the same thing. Hats and yarmulkes off to Dr. Stillman for a perceptive piece!

Could Brushy, TonyKevin, and the author please explain to me how they see HAMAS fitting in to the picture of peace and tranquility that they seem to believe will be ushered in when all sides adopt a common sense approach. Utopia has always been elusive, and really, it doesn't matter how many petitions or positions, or pleadings, or pronouncements or platitudes are done on the Jewish side, ..in fact it doesn't even matter if you follow Keiths idea of 67 borders and handing over Jerusalem... what matters is this:

1/ Who is the "elected" government ? (HAMAS)

2/ HAMAS CHARTER "Palestine is an Islamic Waqf from the days of the conquering till the day of resurrection".

In another part of the Charter they refer to "and no one can give up in whole or in PART the Islamic Waqf."

I won't even bother mentioning the Orthodox Jewish or Settler position. Lets just assume they can be defeated by democratic means.

So, we are left with a radical, Islamist group, who see no other future for the whole land except a "Jew Free Zone"

So.. this is my only real question.... 'What about Hamas' ?

Just 2 days ago their spokesperson said "This does not mean we will ever recognize the Zionist Entity"

Having outlined the 2 extremes in other posts, and being picked on for my trouble "Only positive posts please BOAZ" (Keith) the ball is fairly and squarely in the court of those who see a settlement possible with Israel still present.

Ziad Dayeh Hamas spokesman "We reject any document that includes recognition of the Zionist entity and gives up one inch of Palestinian land,"

Hamas Cabinet spokesman Ghazi Hamad said Haniyeh's government is "not opposed to the establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders." (yeah right ! this says NOTHING about recoginizing Israel)

If some optimist can show me a statement from HAMAS which specifically recognizes Israel (or will) then there is a starting point for a discussion.

Bushbred, I guess you are next going to tell me that when the Crusaders went to the middle east, they were inspired to invent all these interesting things like Hindu/Arabic numerals and soap.

Civilisations borrow off each other all the time. It doesn't necessarily make one culture superior to the other. Unless, of course, you subscribe to eugenics ...

Why this obsession with hamas? They're a collection of people with not much power, certainly not enough to defeat another country. So what about hamas, DB? Do we ignore the imperial actions of one party at the expense of the creed of another?

Perhaps if Israel was not perceived as zionist there would be less reason for palestinians to elect a party with the stated intention of opposing them.

Here's another starting point for discussion: what about making it plain to Hamas, possibly through third parties, that useful talks, including about their recognition of Israel, cannot take place until they rescind their lunatic allegiance to the "Protocols of Zion" in their Covenant? If pressure can be brought to bear on them about this, especially by better-informed Palestinians such as Hanan Ashrawi, there might be some hope. It's vital to remember that Hamas is no longer an opposition group answerable to no-one, but now has a serious responsibility to those who voted for it as well as to the world community.

PS It would help if their leader Haniyeh didn't look like George Clooney's older brother...

How can anyone seriously believe that peace in the Middle East is in Israel's hands?

That plucky little country is surrounded by millions of seething, racist Arabs who absorb Jew-hatred with their mothers' milk.

Palestine is a hopelessly corrupt, gangster state that is incapable of evolving into a functioning country. Even if it wanted to, countries like Iran and Syria fund and arm its terrorist gangs in order to prolong the conflict and further their regional ambitions.

Most Israelis know occupation of the territories is not sustainable. But there is no genuine peace partner among the Palestineans. People who lay the blame for the last 60 years mostly at Israel's feet are either blind, stupid or just plain barracking for its destruction.