shorbe,

Interesting point. I would agree that it has made relationships more difficult and tenuous.

In some ways society is more liberal especially towards female behaviour and in other ways it is more restrictive towards male behaviour. Daphne Patai in Heterophobia wrote men are walking on the edge of political correctness.

One only needs to look at the expansion in the definitions of sexual harrassement, domestic violence, sexual assault (where an attempt at seduction can very quickly become sexual assault.)

As to sexual harrasement, two blokes can say the exact same thing and the one that the woman is not attracted too, will be the one who is charged or accused of SH. I think that the sexual harrasement industry was more about driving a wedge between men and women especially considering that in the vast majority of courtships it is the bloke who makes the overt moves.

You are probably right in that there is not much more than biology, phermones and the hard wiring of genetic behaviour.

Society with varying degrees of success has tried to control the animalistic behaviour of human beings or perhaps more correctly what society at the time regards as animalistic behaviour.

James there are area's of male behaviour which are being freed up as well. It's much easier now for a male to be prime carerer of children than it was, it's easier to go out with a woman and not find yourself obliged to pay the whole bill (sometimes we even get taken out).

Many women have picked up the responsibilities which come with additional freedoms, rejoice in it when you find it. Others are still trying to have their cake and eat it as well, avoid them when you find them.

Your comments regarding harasment are similar to some of what is on my mind when I read of women still being advised to play "hard to get" and other games of manipulation.

If they play that game how do men know if someone is being hard to get or is genuinely disinterested? What might start out as misreading signs could easily become a very destructive episode if the guy is deemed to be harrasing rather than demonstrating his interest.

It also increases the risks to women when No means try a bit harder, a loose, loose situation.

R0bert

shorbe,

I dont think that it is feminism that has made women less desirable to men, but more to blame is female behaviour.

I am often attacked for hating feminism per se, whilst in reality it is the distorted and untruths that some feminists promote that I dislike. However other less radical feminists then often quote these untruths or exaggerations.

The following is hot off the press.

Study shows need for unbiased domestic violence services.

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/03/14/study-shows-need-for-unbiased-domestic-violence-services/

http://www.springerlink.com/content/a7q0032j88817218/fulltext.pdf

I am tempted to copy and paste but then Romany would accuse me of plagarism.

However another article I think says it all has to do with ex wives having to pay husbands alimony.

"I've seen thousands of clients," she says, "and almost every time I've seen a stay-at-home dad seek alimony, the wife--she's usually a software executive--goes ballistic."

"Right or not, as women's earnings grow, so will their financial responsibility during divorce. That's equality for you."
Forbes Magazine.

JamesH: Of course, in theory, one should distinguish between the ideals of a political or social movement and the behaviour of some, many or all of its followers, but the reality is not so clear.

Yeah. Pretty good article Mary Bryant. Thanks. JamesH. "MensDaily" so you object to women's interest lobby groups and such on the grounds that it is feminist and yet you subscribe to an American men's interest group propaganda paper that is clearly one-sided, biased material complaining about suppposed, biased one-sided material. What happened to the non-gender idea? Fizzle.

What happened to this thread or any thread in relation to women's issues? Hail! Hail! The anti-feminists are all here.

By the way the Australian system generally doesn't consider the gender just the role played prior to the breakup. It will be interesting in the future when divorce happens in situations when the the prime carer is a paid employee. But then again that two people have to work to survive or get ahead is how little that men's group (Government)that runs this country thinks of parenting. You just have to see the cruel game they play with single mums.

Girls, if you've noticed how the media are stirring up resentment against single mums, well a Baptist priest told an audience about 20 years ago that it would be good to make them work as maids in the homes of busy people. No choice - force them. Old England, South Africa, Deep South and now good ol' Australia. Watch those right-wing lobby groups or young girls will be back looking after the lord of the manor's wants.

What about those forced to send the kids off-home. What about he women who love the idea of being "barefoot and pregnant" and what about couples who choose to have one stay at home and forgo income to nurture their children. Being there is the only way for some cultures?

I say no woman should have to be "barefoot" if she chooses or becomes pregnant.

And instead of paying people to ride around on trains all day looking for someone to sign their Centrelink forms - pay the parents to stay and work from home. Make way for the Southside kids and give 'em a job. What's happening indeed? This country needs a good shake up.

Ronnie you wrote that Mensnewsdaily is a propaganda paper.

As far as I know it only exist on the internet so technically it is not a paper.

Secondly Mensnewsdaily posts links to newspaper and magazine articles world wide.

NO! I do not have a subscription to Mensnewsdaily.

For me it is just a shortcut to articles which are of interest to me, I also visit Ifeminist, AngryHarry, Cooltools4men, and a large number of other websites too numerous to list here.

Melaine Phillips.com , I think she is a darling.

I don't really see how trying to nut out the facts and the truth of the matter is anti-feminist or anything else in that matter.