Reading through the posts and from my perspective there appears to be a problem with how whitefellas agree to discuss 'Aboriginal people and issues'in the first intance.

Is the difficulty being expressed here one about how to define the 'Aboriginal problem?

This intersubjective discourse is interesting to me somewhere in all this chat are insights that have nothing to do with Aboriginal people at all, but rather, how white Australian's construct themselves as "public opinion makers" on the issues surrounding Aboriginal people and issues.

I feel like the elephant in the room everytime this happens.

If this conflict of opinion and personal attacks is what the Minister, and staff, encounter then I feel sorry for them. He would have the toughest job in the world or at least as bad as trying to bring peace to the Middle East. Its almost enough to make a sane person throw his arms up in despair and walk away and leave them to fight it out as best they can.

In effort to get something possitive going, has anyone lived and /or worked in any of the few aboriginal communities that worked better than most. I understand there are a few that have less problems than many of the others.

If so can you outline what you think they do differently or don't do that makes them better than others.

Also, what about the aboriginals that live in urban areas? Are their problems the same and is a different approach needed. What about a home ownership scheme similar to that of state housing authorities have, or had, for the purchasse of state built houses.
Many people were able to get some equity and security by this means.

I am aware that similar problems of alcahol abuse, domectic violence and child neglect/abuse happen in the white community, but apparently not to the same extent. Surely the problems are not insurmountable.

Rainier, that's precisely what I was trying to say.

Why do we talk about "the Aboriginal problem" or "Aboriginal problems" at all?

The minute we start doing that we exclude anyone else in our society facing exactly the same problems and focus on issues to do with Aboriginality.

It makes the assumption that Aboriginal parents are the only ones feeding their kids on fizzy drinks and chips which is clearly garbage. Or try these other issues:

-not sending kids to school
-kids failing at school
-alcoholism and other substance abuse
-domestic violence
-welfare dependency
-child sexual abuse
-child neglect

These are not just Aboriginal problems, they are everyone's problems.

Certainly there are some problems that are specifically indigenous issues like stolen generations and land rights and there's no doubt that those contribute to the other problems, but to focus on Aboriginal health problems as though they're somehow exclusively Aboriginal is self defeating, however well intentioned it may be.

Rainier is absolutely right to point out that these are debates white fellas have among themselves. As Aka says, they're about whiteness more than anything else.

FrankGol,

My 'assumptions' about your remote experience had nothing to do with 'miracles'. In remote communities health problems are very much associated with hygiene. Scabies are common and extended exposure can lead to kidney problems. Ear, nose and throat infections are also a major problem. Practically all bush teachers have seen otitis media. It causes pus to run out of the ear, is usually painful, and I believe can lead to permanent hearing reduction. Yet you make an extraordinary remark about teachers expecting children to be clean. It was “disgusting”. You claim to have 20 years experience in indigenous communities yet seem unaware of the basic link between hygiene and health outcomes. With 20 years experience I can only ‘assume’ one of two things, either a) you are very slow on the uptake or b) you haven’t had the remote experience you would have us believe.


chainsmoker,

I'm not sure what your point is about domestic violence, child abuse etc in white communities: it's not us who are dying 20 years earlier; it's Aboriginals, hence the discussion about ABORIGINAL health.

Rainier,

I have absolutely no idea what "intersubjective discourse" means.

Eet, I wasn't talking about those things in white communities. I meant these things are problems for our whole society. Aboriginal health only becomes a specific problem when you use the word "Aboriginal" before the word "health".

It's a very different problem when you say that despite everything we know about health and medicine, some Australians still have massive health problems.

What's the life expectancy of a white, chronic alcoholic with a long term rotten diet? About the same as the Aborigine in the same position I'd imagine.

It's really hard work trying to engage with Eet. He first claims that while he has practical experience I have none. When I tell him I have more experience than him, he then says I am either a slow learner or a liar. How can I argue with that?

But I don't really need to contradict eet. He can speak for himself.

On Wednesday Eet was saying: 'We need to treat Aboriginals like adults and expect them to take responsibility for their own actions' while in the same post he berates them for making the wrong lifestyle choices. 'Most Aboriginal health issues are related to lifestyle choices - diabetes and kidney disease are two that come to mind. Premature death due to alcohol related issues is also a huge one...'

At the same time, on Wednesday Eet was claiming that: 'Aboriginals are the most prodded, tested and over serviced segment of the population in the country...Government goes to enormous lengths to provide quality health care in some of the most remote places on Earth.'

On Thursday, lest we get the wrong idea, Eet assures us: 'These [Aboriginal] people aren’t stupid.'

By Saturday he's back on track: 'In remote communities health problems are very much associated with hygiene. Scabies are common and extended exposure can lead to kidney problems. Ear, nose and throat infections are also a major problem.' This in the midst of the most medically 'over serviced segment of the population in the country'. What inferences are we expected to draw?

So if Aboriginal people are the most medically over-serviced people in Australia; if they are taught the difference between healthy and unhealthy food; if they are not stupid but they make the wrong choices about lifestyle and hygeine; and if Government 'certainly do all they can'; what's the solution, Eet?