Solutions to the problems? The TRUTH, and more public understanding, not the lies that’s peddled out by public relations campaigns (I should have called it the American public relations machine before) bastioned by the Murdoch’s press.. id imagine not many Australians would know where Palestine is, but how much luck do you think a Palestinian would have holding a chook raffle down at your local pub to spread awareness? Zilch! I mean these aren’t all bad people whom i’m sure would have the same dreams as aspirations as yourself for a decent way of life, yet how much do you see of that in the press?
This whole argument is not only about terrorists, its about PALESTINIANS

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Magic Jess,

Sadly you've arrived late in this discussion. It has been ongoing for some months now.

If you wish to gauge my perspective then I suggest you read an article I wrote for Online opinion.

So What's Changed Since the Most Recent War?
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5358

I thought it fair and balanced. I despise violence of any sort. I have suggested compensation be negotiated for all displaced people. I am not tending to support the return of any refugees from either side.

I'm not leftist but am a genuine liberal Westerner with a good grasp of both the great Western traditions...the Greek and the Hebrew .

But Magic Jess you seem to ignore the fact Israel is supported by the greatest proportion of US foreign aid both military and non-military. That makes it a viable state. Israel got where it is by UN mandate and through 'spoils of war' and unwarranted US support. The Palestinians are where they are because they have no state and have suffered an illegal 40 year occupation. Egypt has got where it is through it's unique history, Lebanon through Israeli occupation, and Palestinian, Iranian, Syrian and Israeli meddling. Syria because of the efforts of the elder and now deceased al-Assad, Jordan because of the Hashemite family, Iraq because of the US, Iran because of it's unique Persian history and US meddling, Saudi Arabia because of it's traditional Islam, it's ruling tribal families and their control of oil...oh well I think my point is made.

With the tacit and rumoured threats about an Israeli nuclear attack on Iran, I'm not convinced the Israeli government is all that responsible. With it's destruction of Lebanon, an unjustifiable 40 year occupation, suppression of Palestine and the Palestinians as well as it's deliberatly provocative expansion of illegal settlements, I'd not regard them as anything akin a responsible government.
I've seen all sorts of Israeli apologists defend and praise that Lebanon attack, the occupation and the expansion of those illegal settlements.
So go ahead and tell me which Arabs are irresponsible. If you cannot be specific then your generalisation is certainly racist.

cont

David Boaz can tell you exactly where the Arabs come from...I'd hazzard a guess initially probably the same semitic tribe as the Jewish Israelis. (I use Jewish only to show a distinction from the Muslim and Christian Israelis) and they've probably inhabited the region continuously from the time of the Caananites or even earlier.

Ramir, sganot, Magic Jess and spider.

Do any of you want peace in the region?

Why don't you give us a constructive suggestion how it can be achieved?
Why don't you all sit down and express your view on that subject in the same manner that I have ie an article for onlineopinion. It would be quite constructive for us all. But please Magic, ramir and Steve don't take the tack of Danny and imply peace in the region isn't a possibility. That position has been done to death already by all of the pro Israeli writers who submit their ideas to OLO. Spider look past the 'blame game' when you write your piece.

David, don't bother, for I doubt OLO would be interested in an opinion supporting any sort of ethnic cleansing scheme.

Regards Keith Kennelly

ps Magic…those Indigenous Australians have taken the matter up with us other Australians over the last 30 years or so...we've been a bit tardy and not so generous in our responses ... so far.

Keith
Of course peace is possible between the Israelis & the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab/Muslim world as well. First though, everyone needs to give up the blame game, all sides. I take my que from 'Mandella' who in one of his first great speeches said 'FORGET THE PAST!!' That's what the whole Middle East has to do. Only then can meaningful dialogue take place.

It also means that everyone needs to stop demonizing Israel, Palestinians, Jews, Arabs and Muslims. By this I mean not only the sides involved but also their supporters in other parts of the world. Not every Muslim/Arab/Palestinian is a terrorist or potential suicide bomber. Israel is not an apartheid state. America is not the great Satan.
Most of all, we need to build trust and honest talking and discourse needs to replace hate and rants.

Keith,

I disagree with most of your opinions, reject your analogies as inappropriate, and dispute much of what you consider fact. Perhaps most importantly, I don’t like how you argue – inserting red herrings; demonizing people (using “Zionist” as if it were an insult); and telling others, without supporting evidence, what they supposedly believe (claiming that Lamm’s “avowed aim is to dispossess the Palestinian people of all their lands” and that he somehow implied that “peace in the region isn't a possibility”).

I don’t like your patronizing “Do any of you want peace in the region?”, nor your holding yourself up as some model of constructive opinion. Nor do I like you telling the rest of us who is or is not worth listening to. Keith, you advised Spider to avoid the “blame game”. Terrific advice for someone like you, as your “What’s Changed” article is a model of how the blame game is played. But Spider, though he also plays the blame game, has more serious problems. Given the filth that drips from his keyboard, his biggest challenge is clearly not the “blame game”.

Having said all this, I like your suggestion that we discuss solutions. I did just that in another forum, so I will share with you what I wrote there:

My solution? Tough question because one can approach this in many ways. Do you mean my ideal, wave a magic wand solution? Presumably you don't. There is little point in talking about solutions that have no chance of being accepted.

I have an American Jewish friend who says that, while of course he has his own opinions about what should happen here, he'd support any agreement that had the agreement of both sides. For example, one state or two? He has his opinions about which of these is more fair, more of an expression of each side's desires, more likely to succeed, etc. But regardless of what he personally prefers, if we Israelis and Palestinians here on the ground agree to some arrangement, he'll sign on, too.

That approach seems eminently sensible to me.

continued...