Try bringing a flag on a stick more than a meter long into the WACA grounds and you will be hit for a six out of the ground by the WACA security bods

Nice article, Clifton Evers. I have been quite disgusted at the way the Australian flag has been co-opted by that knuckle-dragging minority who are an embarrassment and affront to all fair-minded and reasonable Australians. However, as you point out, it is reassuring that there is resistance to this xenophobic 'localism' in locales as diverse as in the surf at Cronulla and in the mosh pit at the Big Day Out.

Now I await the usual litany of hate and intolerance from the xenophobes, racists and religious nutters who seem to infest this forum of late. They could learn a lot from the Cronulla grommets and from the BDO organisers, in my opinion.

Nicely written, Clifton Evers, thank you :)

I agree this is a readable article, with a light touch. It identifies an issue that concerns many Australians. But Clifton Evers doesn't take us very far.

I agree that politicians "have failed to listen to Australian youth’s concerns about a deeper set of social, political, and cultural problems that are besetting them at this time - questions of globalisation, transnational terrorism, deregulation of industries, and multiculturalism". (Not that politicians listen all that hard to Australians at large.)

The point is: how well do 'Australian youth' (a simplistic term) understand what troubles them about globalisation, transnational terrorism, deregulation of industries, and multiculturalism? I get the feeling sometimes that headline words like these - together with 'Australian' , 'unAustralian', 'national pride', 'Australian way of life' and 'respect' - get thrown around as a distraction from more serious matters about power and economic control.

So, we see videos of Muslim clerics commenting about how non-Muslims are filth, we see the leader of Australia's Muslims comment that Anglo's are liars and convicts, and the recent videos on You Tube of young Muslims bashing white Australians, and laughing about racist pack rapes, for fun.

We've seen Muslim leaders explain away terrorist attacks, clerics state that we must submit to backward Islamic law, and Muslim youths flocking to these meetings in the thousands.

We've seen Muslim leaders refuse to condemn Osama Bin Laden, anti-semitic remarks laughed off, and some of the more "moderate" leaders demand brutal terrorist thugs like the Syrian/Iranian imperialist organisation Hezbollah taken off the terrorist list.

We see NO, repeat No protests to have such bigots removed, only charges of Islamophobia by angry, defensive Muslims. We even seen with the immoral scum that is the Muslim leader (Mafia Boss) Sheik Taj Hilali, that vile publicity seeking bigot who nearly got Australian hostage Douglas Wood killed, that the Muslim community in Auburn actually wanted to stage a rally in his SUPPORT!

And yet, you wonder at young white Australians demanding allegience to not the flag (that is just the symbol) but our values?

For nigh on two decades such youth have been the subject of racial bashings, even a crime only seen in wartime (which explains the mindset of these young olivenecks) racially motivated pack rape, with the authorities ignoring it while their political masters in the ALP get the "ethnic" vote.

It's bad enough that an entire community votes so undemocratically in the first place, i.e, are a stackable electorate, but that those young victims of Arab imperialism (another name for Islam - have to bow to Arabia 5 times a day, recite the Koran in Arabic even though most Muslims, 85% aren't Arab) have been called racists themselves for reporting on the reality of living with those from intolerant cultures....

................We see what the mid-east is like, that they are all intolerant of each other, Sunni's hate Shi'ites, Kurds hate Persians, and they all hate Jews, and us, yet we import, on mass, 100'000's of them and hope for the best?

Are you serious? I think it's a testament to our Christian nature of turning the other cheek that Australians haven't formed their own gangs yet, and started fighting back.

Unbelievable.

Good article Clifton.

It’s a pity you guys missed a few waves. Appraising each other's clothes is not what surfers do. Surfers surf, they don't admire each other's fashion statements, whether it’s a flag or a Prada handbag.

There is something about this whole Australia day thing with BDO, fashion statements like: "kiss my flag or we'll kick you in the head". They remind me of a bunch of leather queens on crystal meth.

Mincey, pouty, cruel, cowardly, ugly Australians that have never been hungry in their lives, have not experienced oppression and would be shocked if the tables ever turned.

This is what this is about: Australia day celebrates some convict boats that sailed in, and men in bondage were forced to land in chains. They where whipped, beaten, and punished. Kiss my flag! Oh yeah, baby! Am I supposed to turned-on by sadism as well as bondage?

One of my ancestors was one of those convicts. He didn't feel proud, and I am sure he was not proud of where he was and why he was there. The whole thing was in misery, pain and injustice. It is different when the whole day dances on their graves.

Some call it invasion day. In a sense, it is.

I get concerned when a bunch of heterosexual yobbos behave like leather queens on crystal meth in such a self-righteous way. No offence to leather queens. Many are decent people, but you much admit, they look kinda funny.

I can see the yobbo's saying in Pythonesqe camp "ooo, I don't like the brown ones" *shudder*. Or Mel Brookes in the History of the World Part 2 in the Spanish Inquisition: "Ham sandwich's anyone? Ham Sandwich? No? Why not? You're not...Jewish are you? Oh good, glad you changed your mind".

Kiss the flag? Why don't you kiss my bum? At least I know where it's been.

O.k. - the term Australian Youth may be simplistic - (if by that you mean it covers a lot of territory, Frank ?) but then I think that what Australian Youth want is pretty simplistic too: a fair go.

The analogy about surfing is valid: there is no Government regulation to cover the unwritten "rules" of surfing but every grommet knows that if he sticks to those rules he'll be o.k. just as every surfer knows not to take a local's ride if he wants to get out of the carpark without getting beaten up.

So no, perhaps a lot of younger people don't know of the deeper implications and ramifications of the issues you mentioned, but the older generation of parents, teachers etc. have brought them up to expect that they have certain freedoms that are inalienable and that if they behave in one way they can expect certain outcomes and if they behave in another a different set of outcomes will ensue. They also expect they have the freedom of choice when they choose which behaviour they will follow. Simple.

It has been my experience (in other words I am well aware that I am incapable of making broad generalisations on behalf of "Australian Youth") that dissatisfaction with the system and society sets in when they come to realise that they have been conned. Life is just not fair or simplistic.

When government then steps in and seeks to regularise unfairness this dissatisfaction is underpinned by the fact that they are not being allowed to make their own choices. Or so they see it.

Yeah, I agree with the writer: Government should listen more to the next generation of voters - and politicians. Their ideas may seem reductionist but it is the current generation who inculcated them.

Well said CJ. I stuck on a thread for a time and had two such gremlins following me. I don't mind a bait and response but such posters don't think and regurgiate venom. I spit back at them but they don't read the words. Just use the endless "you said" garbage.

One such nasty threatened me online which scared me not at all. Had a two week holiday and returned to dropp in again. Only to find him waiting.

I must warn all here that one or two of these may appear today as they track my posts.

You'll know them when they arrive. I refer to one as my blue heeler. He'll reveal himself to you so don't respond.

WebDiary has an excellent, intelligent and well edited item on this topic. Much nicer ground to try for a discussion but even there some similar more educated types hover. They only allow 5 posts a day so I try and bait themn to my posts to exhaust their daily access.

Plus WD have some good thoughts re political change, Labor tendency but accepting of any reasonable view.

saintfletcher, written with style and just the right amount of satirical cynicism.

If some tatooed 22 year old skin head asked me to do that he'd soon discover the size and wieght of my right boot.

They don't know convict or Aboriginal history and don't care to find out.

SO Kiss my bum too

My convict ancestor never had time to sit around whining, he just got on with making a life ,a good life, for his family and with sheer bloody hard work was quite successful. I applaud him.
In the past there was no need for national fervour, apart from war years.
We were Australians, newcomers eventually blended in and made a corner of this country for themselves. Then came the apologists who hated this country and everything it stood for so they imported people from countries who had never lived in peace,didn't know how to live in peace and told us we were racists because we could not see why these new comers could not blend in like the rest.
These new comers, the muslims, wanted everything changed so they could live a separate existance to the rest of us.Nothing pleased them and they have made vague threats to get their own way.They have abused the freedom given to them and allowed their leaders to insult us.
Aboriginal activists have had their fingers in the pie , so now instead of a united ,tolerant ,free country as we were, we now have three distinct tribes, Aboriginals, Australians and Muslims. All of whom distrust each other and peace is no more.
No wonder our youth are perplexed.

"He saw the attacks on anyone who appeared to be of Middle-Eastern descent as an endorsement of John Howard’s view that we needed to protect Australia from the “threats” of multiculturalism, immigration and the global war on terror."

Yair, we get 'em here too. Dogwhistle, anyone?

I too have 6 convict forebears and a number of free settler forebears, including a great, great, great grandfather in the first ship of Irish to pay for their transport and it wasn't until the 1900's when my grandfather from free settler stock married my grandmother, whose grandparents had been married by Samuel Marsden, the flogging parson, that the 2 lines became entwined. All these convict and free settler forebears were never in trouble with the Australian law and became respected citizens. I married a German immigrant who paid to come to Australia - not an assisted immigrant. He arrived in Australia in 1950 before Australia was officially taking German citizens. As soon as possible he became an Australian and swore an oath of allegiance to our Queen.
We are both concerned that new immigrants to Australia, regardless of race and religion, are not coming to Australia to become Australians.
It is an attitude problem.
We fly the Australian flag regularly on one of our two flag poles. When we have special visitors, examples being France and South Korea, I fly the flag of that nation on our second flag pole.

A few years ago all the excitement was about the Asian Triads. I wonder what ever happened to them?

If Australian society has a problem with it's youth, it's more a gang problem than a religious one. The violent subculture we are seeing has more to do with US "Gangstas" than some sort of religious crusade (pardon the expression) to overthrow society as we know it.

The majority of the perpetrators have never been to the birthplace of their ancestors and don't even understand what the questions are, let alone have any answers. They are typical of any bunch of angry, rejected and disenfranchised thugs with too much time on their hands.

If the Government(s) were really serious about dealing with this issue, they could do much more. Meanwhile, it's obviously in somebody's interest to keep this thing bubbling away.

I expect it's more expedient to keep treating the symptoms than spending money on the cause.

What Clifton wrote about can be summed in one word: hormones.

He watched two youths doing what youths-who-have-nothing-better-to do under the effects of testosterone: a test-fight. It is common among mammals do it as part of competing for their social position with other adolescents - the only difference is that humans use more words and less their nails and developing horns.

There is no reason to take the content of their discussion seriously - they have not really thought about it, but just picked the slogans up like parrots. If they could not pick up the issue of nationalism or religion - well, they would have found something else to quarrel about.

Eventually they will grow up.

It is interesting that the teenagers all came out in force and wore Australian Flags as capes, painted them on their faces, had hat flags, flags flags flags as drag queens say "from asshole to breakfast and back again".

We should have known that if you tell teenagers not to do something, they'll do it in spite of you. That is their job. So this is their rebellion. Quite funny in a way. I can see the funny side to it.

If you get too upset from how teenagers behave, they'll drive us all to utter insanity if we can't laugh. Nothing much has changed. I was a real horror as an 18 year old. This was after we returned from Dallas, Texas.I actually hitch hiked around the Soviet Union in spite of my father, an active National Party member. I think he had a stroke over that one...

With the middle eastern thing, this is different.

None of the Italian, Maltese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Irish or New Zealander immigrants have ever insulted our convict ancestors, provoked nasty riots, played victim politics to stupendous lows, insulted all women, insulted other minority groups, and claimed legitimacy to this land over our ancestors, all in one week.

And bugger, we quibble over our own flag.

Puzzling evidence.

Oh, how nice of the author to paint those who love their national flag as thugs. This is nothing short of an insult from a person who probably sits around the table at a cafe, drinking imported chardonnay while having a Fabian chinwag.

I personally would like to see the flag changed. I personally see the flag as material, not as reflective of who I am. I would never ban people from waving their national flag though.

And if the immigrants find it offensive - move out!

Amazing, saintfletcher - with all that life experience, you still can't spot a nutcase.

I think the biggest problem facing Australian Muslims is how to get rid of Hilaly and the other nutters without seeming to lose face, or offending the various factions within the Australian Islamic community.

Certainly, it would be great if that disparate community could exert some control over its loony theocracy and its thuggishly wayward youth. However, this assumes that Muslims are more cohesive as a religious community than, for example, Christians as they have divided themselves since Jesus supposedly walked the cursed dirt of Palestine.

Would anybody like to nominate a singular Christian leader for Australia? Should it be Cardinal Pell, Archbishop Aspinall, Fred Nile, Brian Houston, or Tony Abbott?

Anyway, as I've said before, I reckon our current flag's a dog. It should be replaced by something that's more symbolic of contemporary Australia than the current collage of obscure British heraldry.

Spider wrote about the flag : "And if the immigrants find it offensive - move out!"

Totally agree 100%, my sentiments exactly, tommorrow I'll be waving my Australian flag, its got three colours, red, black, with a big yellow sun - And if the immigrants find it offensive - move out.

Nice article Dr Evers, but the naive hope for more listening by those on high is a little ripe. When has Anglo power ever paid any attention to views of ethnic minorities? What chance of positive change in the white have-not ghettos when their loyalty to sport and beer is rewarded with AWA's and McJobs, if they're lucky. Maybe a bit of listening could be in order here..

77% - by The Herd (aussie hip hop)

"Well I'm left sitting here staring into a beer
shaking my head at the same ol' loathing and fear
Stranger in my own land, can't understand
How the very word Australian has been damned
I f**king hate myself, take 'Aussie' from my name
Erase this endless shame, forever casting blame
If you don't act the same will I destroy you?
Everyone looks the same beaten, black and blue
So I've had enough of these redneck pr**ks
When fact is the only real s**t that sticks
Watch as I tear the very skin from my face
So none'll see my race, my deep disgrace

You're not even from here in the first place
And those that are you wanna further debase
Nup, no more, never again whether by fist or pen
I will defend, cos I'm at a loose end
The shattered remnants of Aussie dignity
I'm a skip, whitey, round-eye suprise me
By using your shrivelled brain to please explain
How the clever country just went down the drain
We rode the sheep's back now the sheep ride you
If this is how its gonna be don't call me 'true blue'
I denounce my ancestors, wounds still fester
If you say 'it aint so' I suggest ya' wake up

....Captain Cook was the very first queue jumper
It was immigrant labour that made Australia plumper
Enough is enough, whiteys go pack your stuff
Don't wanna live in England? That's f**king tough
I'm sick and tired of this redneck wonderland
Most've you stay silent and I can't understand..."
ta http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/206262.html

Can someone tell me where this will all end up? Race riots burning of the flag and now we cant show our flag? I am an Aussie and I am proud of being an Aussie. You go to any country in the world and when they find out your from Australia they just think its great. So whats happening in our country? Its AUSTRALIA DAY! Go out and be proud to be Australian. Its the one day we can all get together and say WE ARE AUSTRALIAN. I have my flag flying and no one will dare tell me to take it down. Its about time people adopt our way of life. What happened to our laid back aussie nature? Has it gone out the window? What will they tell us next NO ANZAC DAY? Yea right. They have already told kids at school christmas cant be celebrated like it use to be. Well I am over it lets get on with it and keep our traditions alive! We are Australians and we are proud and if you come and live here you adopt our culture its not the other way round. These muslim clerics with all their comments - bottom line you dont like it here- use the door on the way out.We all know they wont because we have it so good here in Australia. Half those kids fighting at Cronulla where born here. STAND UP AUSTRALIANS and be proud but lets do it without all the violence and crap thats going with it at the present. Wear your flag, fly your flag with pride because at the end of the day its OUR Flag and lets all be proud.

"Oh, how nice of the author to paint those who love their national flag as thugs. This is nothing short of an insult from a person who probably sits around the table at a cafe, drinking imported chardonnay while having a Fabian chinwag."

I think this is misinterpreting the article - I certainly don't find the flag offensive, and to be honest, I don't think there are many people out there who do.

What I DO find offensive, would be being told by some thug to swear allegiance to it NOW!

I love Australia. The reason why I love it, is because I'm free to express myself how I want.
That is, expressing it my own way without some fascist thuggish redneck fool trying to tell me how to be Australian.

I suspect the issue here is not about the flag, rather, people hijacking it and using it to further their own beer-fuelled bigotry.

TRTL: "I suspect the issue here is not about the flag, rather, people hijacking it and using it to further their own beer-fuelled bigotry. "

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

"Totally agree 100%, my sentiments exactly, tommorrow I'll be waving my Australian flag, its got three colours, red, black, with a big yellow sun - And if the immigrants find it offensive - move out."

LOL this reminds me of the political cartoon after the Cronulla riots. There were a group of Aboriginals on the beach saying "this is our beach, go home." Loved it.

Awesome comeback Rainer!

And nice work Saintfletcher.

And as for Spider, the BDO controversy was not about preventing immigrants being offended by the Aussie flag but controlling the boneheads that were beating 3 colours of [rhymes with] pit out of those that refused to kiss said flag. They disguised their racism as patriotism. Last I checked, being beaten up is just a tad more uncomfortable than being merely offended.

As an Australian-born and proud Aussie with Asian heritage I just know that these boneheads would've targeted me and those with my Middle Eastern Appearance(tm) with their "moy granfarvva fought free wurld wurs to keep youse outta this country" refrains. The fact that three generations of my family on BOTH sides (hello, some Asian nations were allies!) that fought for or alongside the ADF (all services) and were decorated for it; that I speak and write better English, and that I know the national anthem (both verses) seems lost on these bogans and those that share their thuggish sentiments.

Oh and nice unfounded generalisation about the chardonnay-swilling leftie author, btw. Cripes! Well, allow me to return fire. I can safely assume then that you are some freckle-faced, mousey haired, prematurely aged, slightly overweight, meat-n-three veg eating, beer-swilling Anglo-Aussie bogan that derides the edumacated, cannot recite Advance Australia Fair save for fumbling the lyrics after the two opening lines, and lyrically beats their own chest about our fallen but would not join the Army in a fit. Dead-set. :-)

For those who have come across the seas we've boundless plains to share -- Advance Australia Fair

Kiss my ar..

Just for the record...what are we actually celebrating on Australia Day? Last time I checked...it was the British colonisation of land and the subsequent shooting of natives....nice thing to be celebrating on the 26th January. Forgive me if I choose not to kiss the flag and party....

Good article, Dr. Evans.

I was at both this year's and last year's BDO. I can attest to feeling intimmidated last year by a large group of booze soddon, 20 something males. I witnessed a brawl and a friend of mine was punched for not being patriotic enough.

However, despite the large number of flags at this year's BDO, the crowd was very well behaved, and most people, flag waving or not, were kind to each other.

However, I made an interesting observation about the extent of such people's patriotism. While the big international acts (Tool and Muse) were playing at the main stage, Aussie band Something for Kate were plying their trade on the secondary stage. While the main stage was mobbed, few patriots would support Australian talent, depsite Something for Kate being very popular (debuted at number 1 in this year's ARIA charts).

I would have been nice if there was more support for local prroduce.

Yeah Liam, I heard the song on Tripple J too:

"Captain Cook was the very first queue jumper".

Lets face it, Australians can't hip hop.

Captain James Cook was not a queue jumper. He was an explorer. He did not colonise Australia. He was on a scientific expedition to trace the transit of Venus in the south Pacific. While he was down here, did some navigation. Australia Day has nothing to do with Cook.

Interesting that few know that Cook was an outcast from Cornwall. He was a commoner of no particular family class.

The only time they landed to temporarily colonise in Australia by accident for a few months when they crashed into the Great Barrier Reef. The current town called 1770, or Seventeen Seventy sits today. They only settled to fix the Endeavor.

The Endeavor was not a ship, it was a "cat". It had a flat hull. It had been used to haul coal. It was as not impressive aesthetically, but it was built to last. The British had tough little vessels which were usually reliable. Says something about how lethal the Barrier Reef can be. If it was a galleon, it would have been beyond repair.

Even before this, the first European settlement was also temporary. They were Dutch from the Batavia marooned from a ship-wreck on an Island North of Geraldton WA. This was a few hundred years before Cook's expedition. Hundreds were stranded there, women, children, elderly, banished by their Captain who fled to Indonesia.

There was a civil war between the mutineer "Satanists" of an occult and the puritans. The mutineers in charge raped, savaged and killed many whom didn't comply to their wicked ways. You can see remnants of the carnage, piles of fractured skulls on the Island are still there, most preserved. It was an utter disaster. Some survived in the end to tell the story of a legend.

We were then "New Holland".

PS. There is nothing wrong with drinking coffee in the inner city. What do you do? Sit at home in suburbia watching Eddie Macquire's latest game show?

saintfletcher, pedantry is so unAustralian, especially on a public holiday. I suspect The Herd used Capt Cook as rhetorical device rather than in search of historical literalism, and i know their music contains more truth about cultural divisions in Australia than i've heard from published punditry in a decade. As a fourth gen. white aussie i despair of anglo's ever getting over their racism and their hilariously inflated self regard, you do nothing to give me hope.

Liam and St Fletcher,

I too like history. I think that the Herd probably should have used William Dampier as their rhetorical device. He was, after all, the first Englishman to set foot on Australian soil. Dampier charted a good proportion of the west coast, then known only as New Holland. He was wrecked on the Cygnet in King Sound in 1688 (well after the Batavia wreck in 1629). Dampier was a great naturalist, catographer and navigator.

He was also a ruthless pirate, who was convicted of cruelty and dismissed from the Navy. But, I still think Dampier deserves more recognition than he got. As 'Strayan as the rest of us I suppose.

'The organisers also paid attention to Australian youth’s concerns about Aboriginal rights, and changed the date so as not to offend Indigenous Australians sadness at the fact that Australia Day also implicitly commemorates their colonisation.'

Why do commentators like Clifton Evers view the colonisation of Australia by the British as lamentable but don't view recent colonisation in the same way? This seems like a complete hypocritical double-standard to me.

That is, if ethnic and cultural diplacement was morally wrong when Captains Cook and Philip landed then it is still morally wrong in the 21st century as far as our current immigration policy is concerned.

It is about time that we started to debate whether it is morally acceptable to displace Australia's Anglo-European culture in major cities like Sydney via large scale immigration. And more to the point, do Anglo-European Australians have the right to oppose such large scale ethnic and cultural displacement if they feel under direct threat?

(After all, two wrongs don't make a right - do they?)

Songs, often stir the pot. I am reminded of the old Blue Mink classic:

Take a pinch of white man
Wrap it up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of Red Indian boy

Curly black and kinky
Mixed with yellow Chinkees
If you lump it all together
Well you've got a recipe
For a get along scene

Oh what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true
You know, you know
What we need Is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world
And all it's got Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
Turning out coffee colored people by the score

Rabbis and the friars
Bishops and the Gurus
We had the Beatles and the Sun Gods
A long time ago, it's true
But then it really didn't matter
What religion you chose, no, no, no

Mick and Lady Faithful
Lord and Mrs Graceful
You know the living could be tasteful
Why don't we all get together in a loving machine
I'd better call up the Queen
It's only fair that she knows
You know, you know

... The sentiments of this song, the deep yearnings and longings ... have been answered!

In the great big melting pot of the cross, the true Man for all nations, finally arrived, and entered into our corporate, inter-racial hell. He took upon himself the hatred of all, he bore our guilt, and was indeed 'made to be sin', so that in him, a new humanity might be created.

"Coffee coloured people" all recipients of lavish grace, all crucified and put to death, in him. All raised in him, forgiven our bigotry, our 'superiority gamesmanship', and reconciled in one great big melting pot. Loved, and reconciled - "while we were still enemies".

Loved, embraced, and taken up into a new humanity. Blessed in a cosmic melting pot.

Great article. It's great that alot of writers out there are responding to this debate in a far more logical manner to sensationalist press beat-up.

There's another good article that includes talk about this issue that provided some similar views but from a very different angle at

http://www.aarondarc.com/poppsychology/content/view/211/49/

Happy Australia Day ;)

The Author said:

[Acts of violence which use our flag as their emblem may not be common, but they are certainly designed to send a message to non-Anglo groups in our community about who belongs and who doesn’t.]

My my.. interesting assumption underlying that little rant. It appears to be a denial of the idea that "Non Anglo" Australians can or do feel passionately patriotic about Australia ! I think if the author went and asked a few people he would find the most passionate patriots are among the migrant community who have come FROM countries were they experienced such discrimination and bigotry that they feel so in love with good old Oz.

Kiss the flag thugs are a direct result of flawed and inadequate social and educational policy which failed to create a sense of cultural security in these youths which would ameliorate the sense of need among them to make a blatant statement such as "kiss it or we thump you".

As FrankGol said [how well do 'Australian youth' understand what troubles them...]

Exactly.. why don't they understand it ? Because no one has been teaching them about their national identity and place in the world.
Added to this, many of Franks listed issues are just plain too big for small minds. But people DO know when they are threatened, and small minds often react in spectacular and painful ways.

Finally Mr howard has changed the direction of Australia, but how he did it, I'll save for the 'Multiculturalism, kill it b4 it kills you' thread.

RANIER I came back from Australia day on a tram, in which some very angry young Aboriginal youths were making a point of disrespecting everyone,and lecturing some white chics about 'don't u know ur history' and 'stealing black mans land' I felt so sorry for them... if time allowed I would have got off the tram and had a discussion.. but unable. It was good though to see some apparently full blood Indigenous youths on A day.

First Bruce: Oh, Hello Bruce!

Third Bruce: How are you Bruce?

First Bruce: A bit crook, Bruce.

Second Bruce: Where's Bruce?

First Bruce: He's not 'ere, Bruce.

Third Bruce: Blimey, it's hot in here, Bruce.

First Bruce: Hot enough to boil a monkey's bum!

Second Bruce: That's a strange expression, Bruce.

First Bruce: Well Bruce, I heard the Prime Minister use it. "It's hot enough to boil a monkey's bum in here, your Majesty," he said and she smiled quietly to herself.

Third Bruce: She's a good Sheila Bruce, and not at all stuck up.

Second Bruce: Here! Here's the boss-fellow now! - how are you bruce?

(Enter fourth Bruce with English person, Michael)

Fourth Bruce: 'Ow are you, Bruce?

First Bruce: G'day Bruce!

Fourth Bruce: Bruce.

Second Bruce: Hello Bruce.

Fourth Bruce: Bruce.

Third Bruce: How are you, Bruce?

Fourth Bruce: G'day Bruce.

Fourth Bruce: Gentleman, I'd like to introduce man from Pommeyland who is joinin' us this year in the philosophy department at the University of Walamaloo.

Everybruce: G'day!

Michael: Hello.

Fourth Bruce: Michael Baldwin, Bruce. Michael Baldwin, Bruce. Michael Baldwin, Bruce.

First Bruce: Is your name not Bruce?

Michael: No, it's Michael.

Second Bruce: That's going to cause a little confusion.

Third Bruce: Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?

Fourth Bruce: Gentlemen, I think we better start the faculty meeting. Before we start, though, I'd like to ask the padre for a prayer.

First Bruce: Oh Lord, we beseech Thee, Amen!!

Everybruce: Amen!

Fourth Bruce: Crack tubes! (Sound of cans opening) Now I call upon Bruce to officially welcome Mr. Baldwin to the philosophy faculty.

Second Bruce: I'd like to welcome the pommey bastard to God's own Earth, and remind him that we don't like stuck-up sticky-beaks here.

Everybruce: Hear, hear! Well spoken, Bruce!

Fourth Bruce: Bruce here teaches classical philosophy, Bruce there teaches Haegelian philosophy, and Bruce here teaches logical positivism. And is also in charge of the sheep dip.

Third Bruce: What's New-Bruce going to teach?

Fourth Bruce: New-Bruce will be teaching political science, Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett, and Benaud.

Second Bruce: Those are all cricketers!

Fourth Bruce: Aww, spit!

Third Bruce: Hails of derisive laughter, Bruce!

Everybruce: Australia, Australia, Australia, Australia, we love you amen!

Fourth Bruce:Bruce: Crack tube! (Sound of cans opening) Any questions?

Second Bruce: New-Bruce, are you a Poofter?

Fourth Bruce: Are you a Poofter?

Michael: No!

Fourth Bruce: No. Right, I just want to remind you of the faculty rules: Rule One!

Everybruce: No Poofters!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Two, no member of the faculty is to maltreat the Abbos in any way at all -- if there's anybody watching. Rule Three?

Everybruce: No Poofters!!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Four, now this term, I don't want to catch anybody not drinking. Rule Five,

Everybruce: No Poofters!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Six, there is NO ... Rule Six. Rule Seven,

Everybruce: No Poofters!!

Fourth Bruce: Right, that concludes the readin' of the rules, Bruce.

First Bruce: This here's the wattle, the emblem of our land. You can stick it in a bottle, you can hold it in your hand.

Everybruce: Amen!

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/bruces.htm

Liam don't lecture to me that I am un-Australian. Excuse me.

@ Liam Apart from 7 generations of Euro ancestry, my Grandfather was inducted into Aboriginal culture. Most people here in OLO know this and and over my rantings on this.. He spoke the language, danced the coroboree and shunned his standing in colonial community to make a bold move that he saw was ethical. I guess Quakers are like that.

I can't help but be Australian Liam, and I don't need YOUR approval.

That song really sucks bad. The music tries to copy American Hip Hop, doesn't work, I sent it to my Afro-American friends in Texas and they threw it in the rubbish where it belongs. They didn't care what it said, the music was just Afro-wonnabe dribble.

The information was just wrong. Cook didn't colonise Australia. Right?
"Whites" as you call non Aboriginals can't just go back to England. Been there, done that, we need residency after 4 years of a visa. Over 40 it is not possible.

So I'm pedantic and un-Australian? I'm not pedantic mate, I just like to get my facts right.

Rainer, I saw that episode on Monty Python too. It was kinda funny at the time.

Finally, when Cook landed, and when Phillip landed to colonise Port Jackson, there was no Australian flag. On the boats were the Union Jacks.

On land, the Flag of the British Colony was the Union Flag. You only call it Jack on a Naval Vessel. So the colony was a British colony before 1901. There was no Australian flag before that date.

Pedantic Liam? You just don't get it, do you?

See all the lefties pulling out there hair, chardonnay flowing out their nostrils? Beer swilling, blah blah blah...

Or how about the comment that you would have been attacked for being asian, etc. In reply to this, I have worked amongst many nationalities and when it comes to Asian's, this is where you find real racism as each asian nationality hates the others with a passion. There's no love lost between the Chinese and Vietnames, I'll tell you that.

As for fascism, it's the only system that works which is China has rejected Communism, replacing it with fascism. Watch their people become wealthier now.

Thank you Rainier, for injecting a little humour into this thread (not before time either) - I find the worst threads on OLO often start to resemble a Monty Python sketch.

I think some of you folk really need to lighten up a bit (as they say in the classics). I won't bore you all with trying to prove how OZZIE I am, suffice to say that I don't belong anywhere else. The flag doesn't mean that much to me, my pride in my country resides elsewhere. All this flag stuff seems too American for my taste.

Thanks Spider for telling us that "fascism is the only system that works". I can now safely ignore anything else you have to say.

So while out on a wave (very butch, very Ozzie!) the author overheard a longwinded conversation by two young surfers arguing deep and meaningful stuff about the flag and nationalism. Gee, he must have had some time, luck and the benefit of 'radar' ears because he has come up with more detail than Oprah Winfrey (and without asking a question). Identifying the surfers as 'Grommets' was a nice touch, very (sic) authentic.

One could be forgiven for thinking that modern humanities academics weave more stories than gossips on a bus. The public must be so 'over' such storytelling rhetoric by now.

However it wasn't always that way, was it? Is it unreasonable to expect less fluff and more meat from some university departments? No tour of the back streets and cut straight to the chase.

Re Rainier:
“I'll be waving my Australian flag, its got three colours, red, black, with a big yellow sun - And if the immigrants find it offensive - move out.”
I reckon we should ALL adopt Rainier’s flag as OUR (national) flag.
I’d bet if we did, within a week or two, Rainier would be the one moving out (as in, out looking for a new flag).His ticket on the gravy-train very much depends on him differentiating himself from the rest of us (later) immigrants.

RE TLTR:
I note you are much concerned about “fascist thuggish redneck fool(s) trying to tell (you) how to be Australian” but how about some of the unelected, leftist bureaucrats & “academics” - you perceive no danger from that direction ? or are they ( being largely now establishment) above suspicion?

If any day should be called 'Australia Day', it should be January 1st, the anniversary of the Proclamation of the Commonwealth of Australia in 1901. Or if Australia ever becomes completely independent from Britain, Australia Day should then be the day on which that is officially proclaimed. The name 'Australia' seems to have been invented by Matthew Flinders, the first person to sail around the continent:

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/encounter/collection/B12985211_259_3.htm

Australia Day has only been called as such since 1946, although that day has been a day of celebration at least since 1808.

http://www.australiaday.gov.au/pages/page19.asp

:-:

saintfletcher said: "Captain James Cook was not a queue jumper. He was an explorer. He did not colonise Australia. He was on a scientific expedition to trace the transit of Venus in the south Pacific. While he was down here, did some navigation. Australia Day has nothing to do with Cook."

While of course it's true that Australia Day has nothing to do with Cook, he most certainly wasn't just down there for the sake of science and exploration:

'He sailed north, landing at Botany Bay one week later, before continuing to chart the Australian coast all the way north to the tip of Queensland. There, on Possession Island, just before sunset on Wednesday 22 August 1770, he declared the coast a British possession:

"Notwithstand[ing] I had in the Name of His Majesty taken possession of several places upon this coast, I now once more hoisted English Coulers and in the Name of His Majesty King George the Third took possession of the whole Eastern Coast . . . by the name New South Wales, together with all the Bays, Harbours Rivers and Islands situate upon the said coast, after which we fired three Volleys of small Arms which were Answerd by the like number from the Ship."'

Cook had explicit instructions to claim territory for the crown. 'Secret Instructions to Lieutenant Cook 30 July 1768':

http://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/item.asp?sdID=67

Terra Australis (or at least the east coast of it) was already officially owned by the British Crown for nearly 18 years before the First Fleet arrived.

saintfletcher, the racism and bigotry on this forum I'm used too, but please no bagging the herd!

Cornflower - sorry to tell you, but despite its pretensions OLO is by no means the equivalent of a refereed academic journal. An anecdotal piece like Evers' seems to me to be quite appropriate for the general level of discourse to be found here.

I note that you make no attempt to engage the content of the article.

Ev - quite so. It seems that some of our most ardent 'nationalists' have a pretty dubious grip on Australian history. Maybe the lying rodent and his 'history warriors' had a point...

I read the Article on the Australia Day - kiss the flag, and found the article very interesting. I am Aboriginal and I do feel threatened by the Australian flag, as it symbolises separatism. When Australians debated about designing an Australian flag that was inclusive of all it's citizens I was feeling a ray of hope that perhaps as a nation we were finally growing as a people, become independent, and Australians in our own right and no longer needed to hold ties to England, because Australia does not just have an English heritage, it has Aboriginal, English, French, Dutch, Chinese, Irish, Italian, etc.

I think it is quite sad that we just acknowledge the dominate culture, then exclude "others", to the point of being racist and stupid. Since the debate on Nationalism, twice I have been called "unAustralian", which I find absolutely ridiculous because if I am not Australian, then someone had better tell me what an Australian is, because last time I read the Dictionary, Aboriginal meant original inhabitant of the country, can ya get anymore Australian?

Australia was founded on a brutal past, I have just finished reading "Empty Cradles", by Margaret Humphreys, about English orphans who were transported to Australia. I believe that the majority of Australians should read about it's past and not glamorise it's brutally, but remember so we can acknowledge, say sorry, never repeat, and reconcile in the words of our war heros, "Lest we Forget", a brilliant quote that should be built upon.

Cleonie

Cleonie

CJMorgan said: "sorry to tell you, but despite its pretensions OLO is by no means the equivalent of a refereed academic journal"

Where authors cite their senior academic or government positions (and gain some credibility from that) it is reasonable to expect that they would attempt to maintain a level of independence and rely more on fact than emotion. If they wish to be politicians then so be it however in that circumstance it would be preferable not to cite their academic or government links.

Horus: RE TLTR:
I note you are much concerned about “fascist thuggish redneck fool(s) trying to tell (you) how to be Australian” but how about some of the unelected, leftist bureaucrats & “academics” - you perceive no danger from that direction ? or are they ( being largely now establishment) above suspicion?

Hmm... nope. None of them have threatened violence if I don't comply with their demands.
As for whatever insidious influence on society it is you're worried about, might I suggest that right wing politicians are just as threatening as leftie academics.
S'all about perspective.

Cornflower - articles here tend to be of the standard of op-ed pieces published in newspapers - i.e. no references cited but defensible (hopefully) if challenged. Authors of such pieces are usually identified by their institutional affliations.

I note that you still make no attempt to engage the content of the article.

lol @ Carl. I have a strange feeling I know you.

Well I'm so glad I'm not left wing, as I hate Chardonnay. I don't drink any alcohol at all. I don't indulge in anything much except ranting in this forum. I sometimes wonder why.

My ways are Quaker-ish, but that’s a family tradition. I don't indulge in calling myself a Christian and this confuses Boaz to no end. I do walk the walk, and if I talk the talk in the forum, it is on humanitarian grounds.

Quale, I'm sure my grandfather would agree with you.

I am, never-the-less, a neo-non-republican these days, simply because when I look around this country, there is a vacuum trust-worthy candidates likely to be selected as the Head of State. We still don't have a "Bill of Rights" to control "the Power and the Passion" in the likes of turncoats Malcolm Turnbull and Peter Garrett. Would you trust them?

When we have our "Bill of Rights" etched in stone, then we have something to celebrate. For me, Australia day commemorates slavery. For Quale, it commemorates invasion.

If the rest of you have a good time, well, don't let me shoot down your Albatross. Don't, however, expect me to share the joy either. I don't fake orgasms well.

So this academic appears to be blatantly conjuring up a ludicrous example of the eavesdropping of these two youths who happen to reflect the views of their entire generation. Bollocks! You can just see Clifton running through his checklist of all the points and analogies he is wishing to tie together in order to put forward HIS opinion... HIS argument... not that of today's youth.

Where are the threads of such concerns started here by our youngsters themselves? What topics plaster their myspace and blog pages? What issues drive them to protest in the streets or merely even discuss passionately amongst each other?

Our youth are being moulded to strive for superficial fulfillment in life at the expense of the critical maintenance of our social and political landscape. The very society their predecessors have played a part in shaping has started this poor trend.

This nation is referred to as the "lucky country" but if we continue down this disastrous course of poorly educating and inspiring interest in our children on the aforementioned landscape then we are destined to plunge into a "society" where there aren't even those few people like us here who are discussing something other than the latest economic-driven fad or "celebrity" gossip.

I've perhaps only recently stepped out of the "youth" category, and I am well aware that our politicians and society as a whole need to do a lot more than just "listen" to them. I wonder if the good doctor is at all concerned during any of his other coincidental overhearing of today's youth at the actual ignorance to human rights and political issues the majority possess.

Perhaps next time he'd gain a truer insight if he was an active member of discussions (like Oprah is) instead of the passive approach he displays in his article. He ought to ask: "Would you prefer cheaper booze, game consoles and the opportunity to meet someone famous or would you rather have somewhere to voice your Evers Concerns, debate laws on sedition and the opportunity to save the Darfuri from being butchered, raped and tortured?"

Hmmmmm....

Re TLTR:
“Hmm... nope. None of them have threatened violence if I don't comply with their demands.”

So I guess incidents such as the recent G20 “protests”
lhttp://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20779055-2,00.html
Were just an aberration ? [ LOL]

Dear Quayle
welcome to OLO.
It's a difficult one, but a flag, is symbolic of a nation, and the 'nation' was created by the white settlers and yes, at great cultural and personal expense to the Indigenous people such as yourself and Ranier.
Do you accept that if it was not the English whites, it would have been the Japanese or Portuguese or Dutch or someone, who came and carved out a modern state ? I sure hope so, because that was an inevitable historic tide. It would never have been an issue of 'will they or won't they' but.. 'which ones will come'. In Australia's case it happened to be the Brits.

I don't see any problem with our flag symbolizing that, and I see the issue of Aboriginal relations and place in the nation as completely separate. I wish it were possible to have some "all encompassing make every1 happy approach", but human nature being what it is, would frustrate such an initiative.

I hope that Aboriginal Aussies will join with the rest of us, and mix and intermarry. I'd rather see a blended Aussie of tomorrow who is not conscious of different ethnicity, but is very conscious of being 'Australian'.

Horus - the G20 protests were an attempt (granted, a misguided one) to send a message to the most powerful men in the world, at one of the rare occasions when they were assembled in one place.

The behaviour of those who threatened drunken violence through blind patriotism was directed at everyday people.

There's a difference there, and I think you're drawing a bit of a long bow here, possibly to suit your politics.

Can I ask... do you think the drunk insistence on pledging immediate loyalty to the flag or facing violence is warranted?
I'm not saying I excuse the G20 acts... what is it you're arguing here? Lefties are bad?
I ask again? Is violence under the banner of patriotism ok?

CJMorgan

Does an academic writing on political or cultural issues need creative storytelling and characters to scold or applaud to put across his views? However if it is a work of fiction why not be frank about it? Better still, put the opinion forward as his alone and provide the 'pros and cons' with any known limitations.

When you exhort others to comment on the content of the article, do you mean they should follow your example - as in your enthusiastic barracking and 'bring it on' response early in this thread (25 Dec 9:32:25 am)?

Cornflower: "Does an academic writing on political or cultural issues need creative storytelling and characters to scold or applaud to put across his views? However if it is a work of fiction why not be frank about it?"

I think it is a shoddy debating tactic to accuse an author of fabrication, on no other basis than that you apparently don't like what he's written. That the article is anecdotal is in no way inappropriate for this forum, where the genre is commonplace.

I'm beginning to detect a certain unwholesome consistency to Cornflower's posts to this forum. I wouldn't be surprised if s/he was some kind of apparatchik to a right wing politician or think tank.

However, since s/he posts here under a pseudonym, that must remain conjecture for now - although not quite as much so as Cornflower's imputation of fabrication to the author of the article under discusssion.

The incidence of "kiss my flag" may not be left, right or centre. They could have easily been right wing ALP voters, who knows?

This is an issue of behaviour rather than politics. I don't think we are questioning the flag here. Well, I guess I chucked in a few ironic twists that the flat at the time of the Settlement was the British Union Flag since the Australian flag didn't exist then. But that does not mean that I am against the Australian flag itself per se.

I choose not to celebrate the transportation of my ancestors as convicts or slaves, that is my choice, my freedom.

Look at some other views of Australian Convicts:

"You're the convicts over there" The balmy army

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCRmxG31y8w

Sheikh Hilali's Egypt speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIJPaOt79T8

Their insensitive comments refuse to consider the context of British history. The authorities were so insecure about revolution after they lost America, they sentenced stool pigeons as an example of an iron will at the Old Bailey. The sentencing, was on the ability to build a colony.

The 1780s were unjust, fake, or trumped up Mad King's an agenda to colonize using cheap slave labour.

I mentioned moderation over nationalistic insanity as it can lead to a snowballing effect of ugliness, which we don't need in Australia. The Cronulla riots should be a wake-up call. That makes no apology for Australian dignity. I won't say pride, as pride is the worst of the seven deadly sins, and needs to be checked regularly.

Interesting BOAZ, you forgot the French. If Arthur Phillip and his colony were not here, I wonder if La Peruse from France would have hoisted the French flag. This could have been a French colony for a while, but it could also be likely that the Americans could have bought the whole place from France as part of the "Louisiana Purchase". This is very hypothetical. So is the argument that we could have been claimed by Spain or even Portugal.

All of these countries now have a "Bill of Rights" and we don't.

Dear Boaz,
I find your article simplistic, Britain did not "create" a nation, a nation was already created long before colonisation. The colonisers just chose to ignore, disrespect and deny Aboriginal people their rights. That is why the legal doctrine "terra nullius", meaning empty continent, land belonging to no-one, was fought in the courts by Edddie Mabo and many other Aboriginal people.

I find it always interesting that people in their arguments say "what if", Boaz I don't argue "what ifs", I argue on reality, Australia was colonised by the British, end of story, certainly other countries traded with Aboriginal people before colonisation, but chose not to stay.

And as for making the presumption that I do not want to blend or embrace other cultures, you have just made wild assumptions, as I can assure you that my family is well blended. I just believe in basic respect, and not forced policies of assimilation. Especially when it is expected of one race of people but not another.

And in all honesty I don't see why we should all have to assimilate, because I love difference, and yes, difference can happen, Australia has been a multicultural society since the 70s, when it got rid of the White Australia Policy, I do not understand why people carry on as though multiculturism is a new or recent concept.

To me to be an Australian is not about who was here after Aboriginal people, it's about respecting each other as Australians for our unique difference and respecting the original people no matter how small or insignificant you may think our voices may be. Australia is a multicultural society and maybe we just have to respect and embrace our unique differences as Australians and listen to many voices instead of one.

CJMorgan

You appear quick to take offense but you have yet to understand what I am talking about.

To put it another way, storytelling may be a useful persuasive tool for priests and politicians and there are reasons why this is so, but an academic should be wary of it. My opinion (to which I am entitled) is that the article became an over-spiced mix because storytelling gave the author licence to throw in whatever he felt like (rather, whatever he disliked). To me, the artifice became more apparent than the argument. A bit like the opera singer's technique showing.

If you don't like that then so be it because you are entitled to your opinions too, but that is no excuse for name-calling and abuse.

Cornflower - I remind you that it was you who has come closest to engaging in personal "name-calling and abuse" in this thread, by imputing that Clifton Evers had fabricated elements of his excellent, if anecdotal article.

The only name I've called you is "Cornflower", and I certainly haven't abused you. Unless, perhaps, if you're a "xenophobe, racist or religious nutter", but we haven't seen much indication of that :)

All western nations are slowly being turned into fascist regimes. The professing of blind loyalty to both religion and flags is being persued with increasing vigour by those on the extreme right.

I know what you are saying Quale and there were many nations here on this continent before European settlement. There were many races just in Far North Queensland not related to each other and many languages.

Somehow they communicated with each other and there was trade with Indonesia and Papua. That it why we call this invasion day.

A civilization was already here, it's just that Europeans couldn't recognise it. What they brought was industrial nationalism with fancier toys and armies. For better or for worse, the place became more European over a few decades. The colonials were much more zealous in their iron grip than "mother England". At various occasions there were memos from London telling the colonials to control themselves and be more cautious with the Aborigines. Of course the mother country couldn't even control the Rum Rebellion. What a mess.

Hypotheticals are just that. I don't think there is malice in being curious as to "what if the French got here first" and so on...

The idea of "terra nullus" is abject ignorance to say the least. Even the national anthem sings about "terra nullus". The original song was worse. Fair meant the colour of the skin as well as justice. This is underlined in the second verse that no one sings as it is irksome.

Australian "sons" (sic) let us rejoice
For we are "young" and free (30, 000 years of people, Europeans started in bondage).
We've golden soil and wealth for toil. (not under the new industrial relations system).
"Our home" is "GIRT" by sea. WTF is girt??!!
"Our land" is abounds in nature's gifts (we got the message 2 lines ago)
Of beauty rich are rare (no, beauty is all over the place)
"In histories page let every stage
Advance Australia Fair" (don't include Aboriginal or convict history in our books, we only need to know the good bits)

Cringe Cringe Cringe.

Mother England created a monster when it comes to pride and bad taste. A mirror image or their own pride and arrogance to the colonials.

TRTL
Perhaps the incident of some individual/groups insisting that you/someone else pledge “immediate loyalty to the flag or facing violence” was a rebellion on the part of people who had been forced, for years, to bow to politically-correct-ideology, ideology which promised fairness for all, but allowed some groups to defile secular icons/mores while being very outspoken & sensitive about any challenges to their own religious icons. Perhaps the flag wavers too were trying to send a message to powerful men & woman.

You ask: “what is it you're arguing here? Lefties are bad?”
I’m not arguing that either “side” is (innately) good or bad.
Saintfletcher made a pertinent point:
“The incidence of "kiss my flag" may not be left, right or centre. They could have easily been right wing ALP voters, who knows?”
If the flag wavers were waving the hammer & sickle or Mao’s Little Red Book (or practising jobs for the boys or girls of special races or creeds under the guise of redressing past imbalances) would they still be right-wing thugs?

Horus, I take the point about the fact they could be right wing ALP voters... true.

But there are a few other points here:

1) I rather suspect you'll find most of them were drunk.

2) They were using the threat of violence to express their views. This is inexcusable.
If they disagree with whatever policies that have been forced on them, then perhaps they can take heart in knowing that the current government seems quite keen to accommodate them.
No violence necessary.

It makes me a little sick in the stomach when peoples' behaviours' borders on fanacitism. Reminds me of the mad soccer hooligans in the UK, and the rest of Europe. Reminds me of the Hitler's of recent times. Do these people really understand what their passion is, or is this controlled by larger groups?

I think you get my drift.

I believe it is healthy on my part to voice I am Australian.
I am GreekAustralian, of Greek descent, born and bred in Australia. I speak, read and write fluent Modern Greek and English. I use the Greek language almost on a daily basis despite the fact it is my second language. My parenets have asimilated in Australia over their close to 45 years residency here, yet still hold onto cultural values and traditions. It wasn't easy for them to say the least, but there are no regrets.

I would wave the Australian flag like a mad woman at an international sporting event. I would beam with delight when our Aussie swimmers bring home another gold.

Do I feel the need to drape an Australian flag around me on Australia day to make a point to minority groups? Most certainly not.

Identity is a personal thing, and once we have accomplished that journey, we don't feel the need to keep reiterating what we already feel comfortable about.

Despite the fact that boundaries aren't necessarily so black and white, I think we all understand when unhealthy passion kicks in, fuelled by personal agendas that are largely uninformed and negative.

Fanaticism has been the driving factor behind many wars, mostly religious ones I might add, and ultimately blinds us all from what is true and what is not.

Eleni

Kevin, do you even know what Fascism is?

It's about industry, commerce, employment, housing, education, health, etc.

It is not about how the western governments are behaving for we are far from fascist with water and other essential industries being sold off.

You seem to have mixed Nazism up with Fascism which is normal with all the propaganda out there.