Errrr... proverbs, my old, it is impolite to respond to a post that I didn't write.

>>Pericles
True, Jesus was a minor character and not really worth writing about during his lifetime.<<

I have not actually posted before on this thread.

And anyway, where did I say that Jesus was a minor character? Not just here, but on any thread?

I'm used to being taken out of context, but to invent my entire argument is taking "straw man" techniques just a little too far.

I find your logic highly questionable too, by the way, but I refuse to defend a position that I have not adopted.

By the way...

>>Also true, the gospels were written by people who knew Jesus<<

I think you accidentally missed out a "not" in this sentence.

Just a quick glance at your "evidence" shows that i) Pliny wrote about Christians, not Jesus, ii) Tacitus wrote about Christus, again without details, which just leaves iii) Josephus to give him a name and a religious setting "... a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples."

But once again, I am not justifying a position for or against the existence of Jesus the person. What I have said all along is that there are no contemporary recordings of all the stuff that made him (posthumously) famous: water, wine; loaves, fishes; leper, cured; lame, walked; dead, restored to life etc. etc.

Unless the place was full of idiots, you would have thought that someone would have written a word or two. And that someone else would have taken it upon themselves to make sure the record survived?

Wouldn't you?

But as I understand it, the lack of contemporary support is also taken as irrefutable evidence, on the basis of "surely if the stories were invented, wouldn't they have invented some sources too?"

As I said before (in another thread entirely) this is the classic conspiracy argument: the very lack of evidence is itself evidence...

There are many god-obsessed atheists on this thread.
Do you folks ever get any sleep at night?
You seem to be more passionate to trot out your stuff, than Christians.
Relax a bit!

Food for thought indeed, Tennyson.

>>There are many god-obsessed atheists on this thread. Do you folks ever get any sleep at night? You seem to be more passionate to trot out your stuff, than Christians. Relax a bit!<<

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own position is simple.

We non-believers are often active in the defence of our way of life, because it is threatened daily and on every side by religious fanatics, determined to establish their particular version of godliness as the only one with any legitimacy.

But apart from that, it occasionally upsets me on a different level.

It distresses me to let pass unchallenged such a concerted attempt to create an alternate reality in this world. Particularly one that requires - demands, even - that you let go of your normal critical faculties, and let some "higher being" make all your decisions for you.

It distresses me that otherwise highly intelligent people (and I'm not just talking about this forum; in fact I specifically exclude this forum) can misuse that intelligence to such a massive degree, on one of life's most interesting and challenging subjects.

"Why are we?"

The willingness to take such a fascinating topic and reduce it to the will and whimsy of one god or another is to me the biggest waste of an individual's brain that there ever could be.

The other aspect that distresses me is that, having opted out of the discussion by refusing to contemplate alternatives, the "only-one-god" brigade proceeds to use this fallacy as a weapon against others, fighting and killing them in the process if necessary.

That's why it might appear occasionally that I am "passionate" about it. The sheer waste of highly-evolved intellects. The utter absence of any rational justification for choosing one "only-one-god" position over another. The horrifying waste of human life that believing in "only-one-god" entails.

Thanks for the opportunity to explain. Have a great day.