I can tell you that it is almost certain, that while the Indonesian government may deny any involvement, they are well aware of what is happening. Just as they were well aware of what went on in East Timor after independence. The Australian Government has been monitoring the Indonesian government for years and they are also well aware of what the Indonesian government is allowing and instigating, but diplomacy does not allow any of this to come out. (I have reliable sources)

I suggest you do some careful research and try and find out for yourself what life is like under a Muslim government.

Is it true that:
It is against the law to change your religion.
A woman of any age must have a male as a legal guardian.
It is not permitted for a non-Muslim to have a larger house than a Muslim.
The word of a Non-Muslim does not hold up in court over the word of a Muslim
people may not build or even repair churches, synagogues, temples or any other non-Muslim place of worship.

Have you noticed how what was once the ravings of “Muslim fanatics” are now becoming more commonplace and those who say Islam is a religion of peace, seem to be in the minority
Go to http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24018_Dispatches-_Undercover_Mosque&only

And view a program about a guy who went undercover and attended a mosque in Englan

Proverbs,

I've done a little wikiresearch, and found the Indonesian constitution "...states that all citizens are equal before the law. [It] details the human rights guaranteed to all, including:

the right of children to grow up free of violence and discrimination
the right of all to legal certainty
the right to religious freedom
the right to choose education, work and citizenship as well as the right to choose where to live
the right of assembly, association and expression of opinion
the right to be free from torture

Citizens also have "the rights not to be tortured, to have freedom of thought and conscience, of religion, to not be enslaved, to be recognized as an individual before the law ...Finally, every person is obliged to respect the rights of others.

"The nation is based on belief in God, but the state guarantees religious freedom for all."

It says nothing about not allowing churches to be built, but judging from the above that's no surprise. Then again, all the above might be utter crap. Perhaps your little birdie could confirm this?

The video? England, it's immigration program and the radical Muslims living there sure do have a problem. I'm against all forms of indoctrination, but particularly the religious type. There's a saying about this, isn't there? Once again, Wiki to the rescue -

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.

I understand what the Indonesian constitution says but the reality is that all citizens are not equal under Indonesian law. For example an Indonesian of Chinese heritage (even forth or fifth generation) such as those found in the city of Manado in North Sulewese do not have the same legal rights as an Indonesian with Indonesian Ancestry.

Seeing as how everyone is getting on the Richard Dawkins (God Delusion) bandwagon and pointing out all the horrible things that have been done in the name of religion maybe it is worth considering the following.

Muslims invented:
Inoculation technique
Fountain pen
Soap
Windmill
Crankshaft
Distillation

Christians invented:
Electric light
The gramophone
Air conditioner
Westers dictionary

Christians established:
Harvard University
Yale University
Princton University
Oxford University
Canbridge University
Websters Dictionary

Explorers.
Vasco Da Gama
David Livingstone Missionary explorer
Magellan
Columbus

If you read the biographies of these people you will see that many of them were motivated by their faith to do what they did. I agree that religious people have a lot to answer for but I also believe the good done by men and women of faith far outweighs the evil

Proverbs,

I think evaluating faith in this manner could lead to all types of not-very-useful conclusions. Everything we see around us was invented by someone, somewhere, while some things were invented more than once by different people in different eras. Love to know who invented spam though.

I’ve been pointedly interrupting a number of recent threads here, in light of increasing focus being paid to religious beliefs as well as a surprising (but inevitable?) spurt of rhetoric, hidden agenda and self-righteousness arising directly from the accidents of birthplace and upbringing. Or as I put it elsewhere, indoctrination. How many zillions of words are going to be written before it’s realised that without common ground we’re not going to get past stage 1? I’m not talking about a particular belief or brand of zealotry, but the whole shebang about competing faiths.

This discussion began when someone witness the first sunrise, and wondered, and came up with an answer, and invented the first deity. We realise now, of course, how wrong they were, and smile knowingly.
At which point I invoke the word “conceit”. The debate rages today. Is it any different? Call me when you reach a consensus, yeah?

No, the point I’m making is that your position is much easier to defend when it’s tangible. There are more than 20 religions with half a million+ adherents, and another 4300-odd smaller churches (http://www.adherents.com), each with their own particular brand of salvation. And here’s everyone on OLO with their heads buried in their navels having a (god-sanctioned) gripe at those infernal infidels! Can you believe this? If it wasn’t such a waste of time and intellect it’d be funny.

I’ve read the emails and visited the links and yes, the imams in England are hateful, the evangelists on American radio are ignorant, and the rants on late-night talkback are….the predictable result.

BBC radio last week reported Livingstone was a bumbler who managed to convert ONE native…for three months. Now that's funny.

Richard Dawkins came about 2000 years too late, I’m thinking

Bennie
My point is that despite those who say Religion is a curse on the planet, there is enough evidence to suggest that it is not as bad as Richard Dawkins Et Al make out.

There is no such thing as neutral education, politics etc. We all have a particular set of paradigms through which we view life and it does not have to involve the supernatural to be religious. Secular Humanists declared themselves to be a religion. Marxists pursued their goals with a religious fervour and there is almost a religious zeal about Richard Dawkins assertion that there is no God (which he can't prove any more than I can prove there is a God).

Everyone has an opinion. My concern is that there are those who are willing to sue or even kill those who disagree with them.

I may disagree with what people do or say but I try to separate a persons action and opinion from the individual. Everyone person is a valuable, worthwhile and deserving of respect. So why is it when I disagree with Homosexual ACTIVITY then I get called a bigot, a homophobic and any number of negative terms. If I disagree with Islam I run risk of being sued or having my life threatened.

I don't seem to have these problems when I disagree with other religions or political persuasions.

I see nothing wrong with healthy debate, lobbying government or peaceful demonstrations, but it's gone too far when people decide to personally attack those who disagree.

Two pastors hold a seminar in which they preach love and respect for Muslims. They quote from the Koran to illustrate the danger of some of Islam’s beliefs. They are charged with religions vilification because Muslims who were deliberately planted in the seminar with a view to gathering incriminating evidence set them up.

Its interesting how many Muslim clerics (shepherds of the flock) are now saying things that cerify the two pastors warnings

Richard Dawkins is entitled to his opinion but his call to ban religion is a call to ban freedom of thought

Bennie, what you write is correct. Humans have invented more than 20,000 different religions over the last 100,000 years or so. Every religious adherent today rejects 19,999 of them. You and I simply reject one more than they do.
It is a total waste of time and effort to treat indoctrinated, brainwashed religious people as rational. That part of their brain has been excised when it comes to religion. Better by far to ignore them completely because they are unable to think outside their dogma. If ignored they might stop trying to convert everyone on sites such as this.