'The culture of policing needs to change.'

The Fitzgerald enquiry came to the same conclusion some years ago. The officers of the Queensland Police Service seemingly have failled to heed that outcome of that enquiry. The CMC is an irrelevance now and cannot follow up in this matter, so what is needed is another enquiry into the Queensland Police Service.

'We need to continue to look for ways to reduce the toll of alcohol on Indigenous communities and to recognise the role of alcohol in high Indigenous incarceration rates.'

The Black Deaths in Custody inquiry came to the same conclusions. Their reccommendations completely covered and offered solutions to the high incarceration rates. All that is needed is for those long overdue recommendations to be implemented. Mostly they revolve around policing matters. It is pointless to have another inquiry to establish ways to reduce incarceration rates but we do need an inquiry as to why those original recommendations were not acted upon and the recommended changes in policing were not introduced by the Queensland Police Service.

The root cause of the loss of trust in and respect for the Queensland Police service is not poor education of indigenous kids, it is the continuing lack of change in the Police Culture as pointed out by Fitzgeral and as stated by the author.

That's the problem. That's always been the problem.

This attitude of superiority precluding empathetic understanding is hardly confined to groups such as the Indigenes, who lack much legal or sympathetic clout in our land of xenophobia. Difference is worth attcking, ignoring or using as political tool, which if used correctly can enhance enduring parliamentary position. One needs a culture of difference of inferior or arkward encumbnering status and the media is generally only too happy to oblige, own their own or when given such as parliamentary feed. The latest along the lines of sexual deviants as I recall. Stuff of headlines indeed though unhelpful. Isuppose most have foregotten the map of Australia promulagated in all honesty, one assumes, showing native title 'threatening' the whole of Australia well alomost.
A ploy not dissimilar to the WMD's postualted for its fear potential in recent times, no doubt remembering Herman Goering's dictum.

Kirsten Storry rightly puts a share of the blame on indigenes destroying public property in these rampages. Press reports said that
Aurakun leaders were taking refuge with police under seige in that incident. This suggests a distressing lack of leadership as well as all the underlying causes ..education, lack of jobs, business opportunities. ATSIC did not appear to be the potential solution in that regard. What does the Centre for Independent Studies suggest?

And at last Hurley has been charged

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200701/s1834307.htm

quote

Teachers to strike over house vandalism
Teachers in the central Queensland Indigenous community of Woorabinda will strike next week over vandalism of their accommodation.

Barry Thompson from the Queensland Teachers Union says staff returned from school holidays to find teachers' houses and the school had been trashed and personal items stolen.

Mr Thompson says the teachers will strike for 48 hours on Monday and Tuesday, and are very upset at the senseless damage to their homes.

"I think all bar one have been broken into, property smashed, things stolen and various acts of vandalism performed, and that's not only happened in the individual houses and units, it's also happened at the school, and teachers have just had enough," he said.

"They don't believe they should have to go away on their holidays only to come back to find that their personal space has been invaded and that there's been extensive damage done."

Education Minister Rod Welford says he can understand their anger and concern, but strike action is not the answer.

"I'm hopeful that the teachers will resolve to get back into the classrooms and get started making a real difference to the lives of the young people at Woorabinda as soon as we can arrange for that to happen," he said.

"Obviously there is no benefit to the teachers or the students to any extended strike action."

unquote

Great job here, someone in the community must have known this was going to happen, and were in a position to stop it in some way, or after it happened knew who did it and were in a position to tell the authorities.

Do I read of any citizens coming forward to provide information? Not likely. Lets get thgese teachers out of here and close the school down, its obvious that the locals don't want it. Leave the community to its own devices.

Hamlet

Your example of the B and E seems to imply that Hurley was excused for the death of the man in his custody. Is that what you were suggesting?

Why weren't the police doing their job? They are supposed to be protecting the community. Probably they were too busy rounding up traffic offenders or harmless drunks eh?

You know I live in a Capital city and I was broken into recently and had some money stolen.

Here's a copy of an e-mail I received from Queensland Police.

'Hello KENNELLY’s,

In total there were 7 breaks in your complex and 1 attempted break. Apart from the cash stolen and inconvenience you have been lucky in this regard.

Crime Report 06/188862

Camp Hill Police Station
580 Old Cleveland Road, Camp Hill. 4152
Phone 3843 2125 Fax 3398 3537
Morningside LAC. Metro South Region'

Neat policing eh? I couldn't work out if I was lucky I was broken into or lucky only to have been broken into?

I sent off a response asking what they would have done had I or my family had been assaulted. Needless to say I haven't received a response.

So the teachers are striking. That's a bit rich. I'm just calling for an enquiry as to why our police force isn't policing. The events we have seen with Hurley and the police unions and senior officers are an indication something is terribly amiss. The police are so obviously disconnected with all communities not just isolated indigenous communities.

Firstly I would apologise for the double post, I wasn't trying to make the point twice.

I would now add that I have respect for Sir Lawrence Street's recommendation. He is of a different opinion to the Qld DPP, and under the terms of the review he had to say it as he saw it.

Now will be interesting to see how it proceeds to trial, that is, via committal hearing, or by ex officio indictment, and who brief the prosecutor, that is, will it be the Crown Solicitors Office direct, or back to a solicitor from the DPP? Selecting an impartial jury will be interesting, not impossible, but interesting, given the press discussion of this case, and the way that sides already appear to have been drawn.

I don't feel that police strike action in Queensland is justified. The Police Union should let justice take its course.

Lastly I hear that the Qld Police Union has called for police to be withdrawn from Aboriginal Communities and that policing be handed back to them in the form of customary law. This may be a good idea, after offering financial incentives, accommodation and subsidised jobs to all those who wish to leave these 'self policing' communities. (The only way that Palm Island will be 'solved' is to move people off it to places where there are jobs and accommodation.)

Would it be impertinent to suggest that this be done, subject to plebescites being conducted asking whether Aboriginals themselves want the police to be removed? Perhaps we may find these communities split on gender lines on this issue.

Yes some police actions are criminal, against whites and Blacks.
However rainier again refuses to see the crimes Aboridginals continue to carry out against their own.
No white man can be blamed for child abuse sexual and other in numbers that over shadow the national average serveral times.
Floggings of females in this comunity are crimes that rainier would prefer we ignored.

Where in any of my posts have i denied such violence is destructive Belly?

This is simply an accusation to turn the focus away from the violence that I and others know only too well from police - especially here in Queensland.

Your apparent concern for our women and children is nothing more than pretentious bunk and only thinly disguises your deep loathing and hate for all Aboriginal people.

Like many you've never met an Aboriginal person and only know us through the racist myths that are part of your family's cultural heritage. And if you have, it will no doubt be universally applied as knowledgeable justification - to every story and opinion you have about us.

And so do you accuse me of this denial because you have a burning desire to do something? No of course not. So at least be honest.

Like many who purport to have expert opinion, you would quickly shy away from an invitation to do something constructive. Like other social, cultural and luddites here on OLO your posts are illustrative of how delusion, racism and nationalism all contribute to creating the “ugly white Australian”.

Belly,
I suggest you read the many books and reports that are available that document the govt sanctioned enslavement of Australia's original peoples.

Sexual slavery of children by the settlers/colonialists/invaders is well documented.

There is considerable documentation of the rape violence and murder enacted on Aboriginal peoples by the settlers.

I suggest that a google search will provide you with some starting points but you might like to read "Broken Circles" by Anna Haebich, or the "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Women's Task Force on Violence Report": Queensland: Department of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Policy and Development (DATSIEP).

The latter is available online as is the HREOC Bringing them Home report, but I couldn't be bothered to look for the links for you.

The problem is people like you mouth off without bothering to know what they are talking about

Cape Kid, You stated (Not all that happened that night has come to light. But I'm sure it will in due course now that charges have been laid. Hurley is, as law states, innocent til proven guilty.)
The fact is that no charges have been laid and from what the media has published in the days since the decision by the Attorney-General it would appear that Kerry Shine may have to go back to Mr Street for further advise on what procedures are available to institute the proceedings. They do have four choices but the public will never be provided with any evidence of whether any of these are lawfully constituted in accordance with the laws of the State.
Most Queenslanders who have had their lives interfered with by the members of the Qld Police Service don't believe that there is any rule of law in Qld as the results in the so called courts are always in one direction and to those who have been detrimentally effected it appears to be a problem with the judicial system as well.

There may be some discontinuity in the posts above as I have removed some to be sure not to contravene the contempt laws. To be on the safe side you're all going to have to leave the discussion as to whether Hurley is guilty or not, or any discussion which might imply one or the other until after the trial.

Of course, you can still discuss in private, but discussion on these forums is public.

Rainier once again you devert the thread to stop haveing to answer a question.
Your infamous rants that I hate Japanese? on what evedence?and insulting but unproven slur about Anzac day belittles you.
You seem to think I am denieing the past again I clearly am not.
The crimes of geat Britian included slavery and chains for many of those first white Australian forced migrants.
However they are not looking back and mostly not stalled in the past, you must understand your insults will not change the facts.
Far too many of your people are stuck in a degradeing world they are at least partly resposable for.
The other poster must inform me why Aboridginal men in so many cases rape their children and flog their wifes ,find a way to blame whites for that.
Tell me white crime from last century are worse.
Worse than the dreadfull relality of todays under acheavement and crimes against children and mothers

Belly, tell me about the cultural, sociological and historical reasons white men do what they do? If you think I'm here to represent my 'race' so are you.

Hi all,

Belly, it seems you are a victim of your own beliefs in that you fallen for the 2006 media hype.

Are white men guilty of crimes against women and children too? If so, then should I as an Aboriginal man spout a generalised statement saying that you and your kind are all accountable of the actions of your fellow mates (if you hang around any that do).

Yes, black and white men abuse women and this is a national crime that needs to be addressed. Highlighting it as only an Indigenous issue deflects the importance into the attitude that they need to fix it themselves before we help them scenario...clearly a racist strategy that is working. Has anything serious happened since that NT Judge poured in to the ABC last year? Clearly a way of vexing the general sin by condemning the weakest victims.

Step back and see that historically, us blck mob have 'generally' been victim to violence, disease, racism, disenfranchisement and restrictions to the life and liberty that many other Australians were not. Did your family require permission to move off missions? Mine did! Did your family have to seek permission to marry? Mine did! Did your mob use ID cards that told officials that they were not allowed to leave the dormatories, work, live, buy property or be an Australian because they were a 'ward of the state' regardless of their age. Mine did!

Climb out of your own views and step in the shoes of the most discriminated member of Australian society. Why do they need Royal Commission Recommendations and Interstate decision reviews? Simply because no one thinks they deserve justice!

Ok Graham,
I might be a little slow but why is it ok for the likes of Belly to bastardise history and make broard and inflamitory statements about Aboriginal people But it is not Ok to expect clarification on what the Qld police union is saying.

Perhaps you might be able to shed some light on the questions I asked in the edited section.

Why or how could their objections not be interpreted as quite sinister?

What is the police union objecting to? Their member being charged?

And finally, why is it that police union expect their members to be above the law?

Not sure exactly what you are talking about. The posts that were removed were removed because they commented on the guilt or innocence of Hurley. As a trial is imminent those comments could easily breach the contempt laws. That doesn't stop race issues being discussed. As far as I can see Belly's comments that are on this thread do not address the Hurley issue.

Thankyou to the person who acknowledged the teacher strike in Woorabinda. I had my house broken into oon Chritsmas eve and spent christmas day cleaning up in Woorabinda. The kids got out on bail only to break in again a couple of weeks later. They went to court and are out on probation. If you were to ask the kids what happened, they would tell you "I got off," it is nothing to them. For all of you who live in big cities Woorabinda has 4 police officers. They are off duty at midnight could you imagine how much overtime they have to do. I imagine that the police here are in a very high stress situation. There are gangs of petrol sniffing youths sometimes up to 30 kids, they rule the town at night. Anyway just thought I would give you a real insight (a very small insight) from someone who lives in a community.

I will not execpt lies and false claims that I am racist as an answer to the dreadfull conditions that exist to day in most Aboridginal comunitys.
I will not bring those who have invited me into that race by invertation here to answer for me.
I will not withdraw my charge SOME in this Aboridginal comunity are racist.
And that crimes against children and emales are helped by the chase for free money.
The very best in your comunity know my charge is true.
YOUR SLURRS over look I am intent on an end to your blindness to such suffering.
It is my belif no man white black or any color should be paid if fit for work to sit at home, it is my wish that I never have to do so while I can work.
RACIST? are you blind? do you care? we must not let children suffer one more day.
Let the courts tell us about palm island and 100 other such towns.

To woorie teacher, thak you for trying.

To Belly: You have got to be kidding. If you take a look at most posts here and at other places you will see that I am no apologist for Aboriginal communities: however I find your comments offensive, as if you can see nothing good whatsoeverin Aboriginal people.

I have worked and been friends over the years with too many Aboriginals to accept your criticism of indigenous people without comment.

Yes, there are problems in many communities. There are other communities that function very well. Sometimes these communities are not very far apart geographically: compare La Perouse and Redfern in Sydney.

I also know that violence is not just an Aboriginal problem, but that it is also made more complicated by the amount of substance abuse in communities. To me the whole 'community' system, that keeps Aboriginals in self-imposed cultural ghettos where there are no jobs and little accomodation is a problem. I aknowledge however that some of these problems are due to whites, and some are due simply to the incompatibility between Aboriginal culture and 'western culture'.

Responsibility has to be accepted all around, which is what the original article here referred to.

Ok Graham,
to be clearer,

I am talking about the police union's statements.

What is it exactly that they want - do they want their members to be exempt from the law - do they want their members to be above the law?

With a trial immenent, I am happy for posts to be removed as I would hate for anyone's comments to compromise this trial.
The courts must be able to determine the guilt or innocence of person without undue influence etc.

You state that "As a trial is imminent those comments could easily breach the contempt laws. That doesn't stop race issues being discussed. As far as I can see Belly's comments that are on this thread do not address the Hurley issue."

Haven't you realised yet that this whole fiasco is race based.

I am getting the impression that it is ok for the likes of Belly to imply that Aboriginal people and in particular, the people of Palm, are somehow deserving of the treatment they have recieved to date.

But it is not ok to ask for clarity on what the police union is saying.

The 'race debate' as you call it is central to the issue being discussed as there is some considerable history going back a couple of hundred years

Woorie teacher, thanks for that, are you a first year teacher?

Do you socialise within the community after school hours?

Or do you keep a 'safe' distance?

Aka, you have to distinguish between a particular set of events which are to be tried, and a general argument about race.

As long as you don't discuss the trial, in particular whether Hurley is guilty or otherwise, then you won't have a problem (assuming compliance with forum rules).

It may or may not be possible to discuss the police union role, depending on what you say. If you say that they are trying to protect Hurley because they know that he is guilty, then you'll most likely be in contempt and I will delete the comment. If you say that it is inappropriate for a union to try to use political pressure to prevent a member being tried for a criminal matter, then you won't.

Given the way that conversations can flow online it is best not to touch specifically on the trial because it can easily lead to someone breaching the law.

My last post on the subject but please understand while I have been called a bigot and a racist here.
Told I have never met an Aboridginal my intent was to uncover this hopeless situation.
So that the children of kids I bought up can know they do not face a life like this, yes they are Aboridginal as are their mums.
I remain convinced the hunt to blame todays white Australia is used to stop movement.
And that the gread for money overcomes need for a better life.
And that without true commitment from both sides the dreadfull present problems will bring great trouble in the future to both sides .

[deleted] Community tenant/owner responsibilities

1. All occupants over 18 yrs old must pay rent on a continual basis.

2. Keep your house clean, tidy and in the same condition as you found it when you

signed the tenancy agreement.

3. Report any mainenance needs promptly to the Housing manager filling in a

housing maintenance request form.

4. The tenant will maintain the house except for fair wear and tear, and where

damage is not fair wear and tear the tenant is responsible for repairs.

5. Inspection will be done three monthly by the housing officer and one council

member.

6. The tenant will not leave the house unoccupied for more that one month

without the permission of the council.

7. The tenant will give 21 days notice when leaving the house and return the

keys. Keys can be replaced at $10 per key cut.

8. The tenant will not cause or allow anyone to cause damage to the house.

Council has rule "you break it you pay for it"

9. When the tenant is in breech of this agreement the Council will issue one

written notice/letter and if not sorted out the council will decide on

terminating the agreement.

10. Council will provide weekly rubbish collection and rubbish removal of larger

items on a three month cycle.

11. The council will insure houses but not personal belongings.

12. The council reserves the right to review and change the amount of rent

charged per person and will advise the tenant one month in advance

Appendix B - page 1 of 2

[deleted] Tenancy Agreement

Name of tenant:

Who agrees to be responsible for the condition of house number ......
and to abide by the Councils tenant/owner responsibility sheet given at the time

of signing.

Tenancy will commence on: .../..../....

The rent is $........ per week/fortnight for every person living in this house

over 18 yrs of age until Council ratifies a rise at a council meeting of which

tenants will be given one months notice.

Wage or salary earners - rent will continue to be paid by direct bank/other

debit.

Centrelink recipients will sign a direct debit Centrepay deduction Form No:SA325.

Signed......................... Date...................

Witness........................ Date..................

Belly wrote :
"And that without true commitment from both sides the dreadfull present problems will bring great trouble in the future to both sides".

Gee it took you about 5 posts to say something reasonable.

1. its already great problem for us

2. You can only sustain commitment for so long, for Aboriginal communities changes in government, policies, emphasis, priorities have had their toll. But according to you commitment and persistence has never occured from my side of the fence. Whatever.

To quote a well known black philosopher:

"If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is tied up with mine, then let us work together."

Commitment has yet to arrive with the above in mind.

"Why or how could their objections not be interpreted as quite sinister?"

Read Mirco's article you don't seem to understand what has happened.

"What is the police union objecting to? Their member being charged?"

Beattie paying an ex-judge to investigate after DPP decided the member shouldn't be charged. This unusual course of action is because the person was a cop and an aborigine was killed.

"And finally, why is it that police union expect their members to be above the law?"

They don't. They are outraged because he has been singled out. If the law had taken its normal course it would have ended when the DPP decided not to proceed.

Mjbp,

So what happens to the Coroners findings?

Section 48 of the Coroners Act 2003 states that if a coroner
reasonably suspects a person has committed an offence, the coroner must give the information to the prosecuting authority.

This happenned.

But then the DPP did not give a full account of her reasoning beyond that it was a "tragic accident". She did not simply say there was not enough evidence, she went further and determined the cause of death, something a court of law should only do.

Lets also be reminded that an independent review was sort in both the Fingleton and Volkers’ prosecutions.

If Mirko and the QPU are such legal purists why did we not hear them protest this so called departure from legal back convention then?

Oh, its because its a copper! now i get it.

Rainier,

The selectivity is noticeable. Actually it seems to get worse for QPU if the rumour is correct that they have abandoned Hurley's cause after doing a deal with Beattie. Time will tell whether we see a protest march or strike or if the rumour is correct.