The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The Joss Whedon post we-had-to-have, or Joss Whedon and feminism - part one > Comments

The Joss Whedon post we-had-to-have, or Joss Whedon and feminism - part one : Comments

By Deborah Kate, published 16/1/2007

Musings about 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' from a feminist (and somewhat post-modern cultural studies) perspective. Best Blogs 2006.

  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
It's a laugh to see the word feminism deployed. Feminism was over the moment women got the vote and the right to wear trousers. Now, almost every gal under 40 is pushing to restore second-class citizenship to women, after realising that the world of men they thought a paradise is, in fact, brutal and unforgiving.

As part of a face-saving exercise, pop-culture artifacts like Buffy allow women to be feminists by proxy, i.e. "I want to be a cossetted damsel in distress, protected and owned by men, but I have the Buffy/Angel DVD boxed set, so clearly I must be an independent power grrrl who makes her own rules."

It's the fans of "Buffy", "Sex and the City" etc who recently embraced that feminist icon, Paris Hilton, on her recent visit.
Posted by Sancho, Tuesday, 16 January 2007 11:23:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Very interesting. Buffy was a great hit with all ages – pre-teens to late 50s when it began – and both sexes in our household. In terms of dealing “with the real concerns of most adolescents”, Buffy was vastly superior in that respect to all of the shows which more obviously focused on them. And the humour was brilliant. Firefly and Serenity not quite in the Buffy class, but still excellent.

In my office some years ago, I sent an e-mail around the 60-70 staff, mostly much younger than me, with a subject line from Buffy – the musical – I think “I touch the fire and it freezes me” – just to see who recognised it. Sadly, no one did, one or two thought it might be Lennon or Dylan!

Sancho, Paris Hilton? I know many Buffy/Whedon fans, all of whom would have contempt for PH. Wash your mouth out.

(I had four question-marks after "Hilton". My post was blocked with a red message that "There is no need for so many question marks. Remove them."! Shame on you, Graham!)
Posted by Faustino, Tuesday, 16 January 2007 2:07:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Weird. I was a fan of the buffy series, though it didn't have a patch on Angel... That being said,the Angel series didn't have the same feminist angle. Or did it?

Firefly was probably the best of the bunch. This didn't really address the central role of the captain however, who was pretty close to the stereotyped male hero, save for the occasional foray into self-deprecating humour.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Tuesday, 16 January 2007 3:59:20 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Deborah,

It's great to see an article on Buffy on this forum. I consider the Buffy/Angel series to be the greatest show in the history of the universe. It's humour, story-arcs, and in general super-cool ideas were what attracted me to the shows.

Specifically on feminism, as a male I appreciated watching a show which was overtly feminist, but did not try to 'bash' males or masculinity. Your comments on Xander are accurate, and I found I associated and empathised with him on many occassions, but I would be wary of presenting Xander as a progressive character, as some kind of ideal 'feminist' or feminised male who, if only there were more of them the world would be a better place.

The Buffy-verse was full of strong, very-much-masculine characters to whom I felt I could associate with and look up to. Specifically with regard to Angel and Spike, I admired the way they were completely unapologetic about their masculinity. The fact that they were vampires was an important metaphor, in that this unabashed masculinity can be utilised either for good or for evil. The ultimate message from these characters was that it isn't masculinity or femininity which makes us good or bad, but our humanity.

Faustino,

You'll get an encouraging response if you find a way to quote random Buffy/Angel lines in a conversation. Something like, "so you just thought you'd pop around for a friendly chat and it's not the end of the world..."
Posted by dozer, Tuesday, 16 January 2007 7:22:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
True indeed sancho.

Proxies eventually become adequate substitutes.
Posted by trade215, Tuesday, 16 January 2007 8:41:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"The ultimate message from these characters was that it isn't masculinity or femininity which makes us good or bad, but our humanity."

Firstly, Buffy r00lz, except the last two seasons.

Secondly, I never really noticed Buffy as having a feminist message, I guess because I've always known the above message to be an obvious given, that particular point was lost on me. Now that I think about it, it makes sense.

Having said that, there was a lot of reinforcing of stereotypes in the show...not necessarily in the characters themselves, rather the values and perceptions of things such as relationships and schooling and so on (my biggest gripe was that the characters kept going to school, even when there was impending doom. It made no sense!). That and Buffy always whined too much. She was my least favorite character until Dawn arrived.

But I guess thats the cost of constructing a thoughtful show that must also appeal to the mainstream (particularly in the US) - certain values, such as christianity, must never be questionned, even when you're fighting vampires. Go figure.
Posted by spendocrat, Wednesday, 17 January 2007 3:36:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy