Col Rouge,
yes i know Israel was founded in 1948 and yes the 6 day war was what i was referring too, and unfortunately what i forgot the mention was that it was fought between the arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria.. my point has nothing to do with that though, and i wish that your research extended further than your half assed attempt to discredit me by using Wikipedia, the 6 day war was a misguided pre-tense to capture the West Bank,
"in 1967, Palestinians fled their homes during the Six Day War when Israel occupied the remaining 22% of Palestine, describing this as an act of self-defence" (John Pilger, 2006)
I'm glad u pointed out much of the land has been repatriated, but its not entirely true, illegal settlements still exist that are strategically placed to ensure dominance, this is even highlighted in Wikipedia "Israeli settlements on the West Bank beyond the Green Line border are considered by some legal scholars to be illegal under international law, The Independent reported in March 2006 that immediately after the 1967 war Theodor Meron, legal counsel of Israel's Foreign Ministry advised Israeli ministers in a "top secret" memo that any policy of building settlements across occupied territories violated international law and would "contravene the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention"" (Wikipedia), but of course what does international law matter right? .. Extend your research further than what the media portrays as its often misguided, I'm trying to discredit your use of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as a means to assert your worldy, 'well researched' beliefs on Hassan's work..

MAlik to trueaussie your wrote “I wonder how OLO management allowed these kinds of crazy mind people in the forum….you don’t deserve to involve in any debate….”

And I could just easily apply similar words to you, with your crass generalizations like “the retarded people sitting home on public welfare with their bear and pizza and make fun of others killings...”

you hypocritical ingrate.

I think trueaussie was pretty right in what he said. Maybe not the words I would have used but certainly the sentiment.

Every day we see people like you who try to give it out but when it comes to being on the receiving end you call foul (or with your words skills that would possibly end up as fowl (cluck cluck)) and suggest this site should moderate those like trueaussie because he offends you.

Keep posting trueaussie, I have been suspended more times than I care to remember but OLO has it pretty right.

Peachy “"contravene the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention"”

Back for a second slap?

Maybe you could tell us what the Geneva conventions say about unprovoked Hamas rockets raining down on Israeli civilians?

Or what is dais about Hamas and Palestinians sponsored suicide bombers climbing on Israelis school buses?

Before you criticize the defensive strategies of Israel, which you claim might fall short of the expectations of the Geneva convention(s), I suggest you check the compliance of the adversarial forces which reign madness and mayhem against Israel and you check the “remedies” available to victims of Palestinian / Hamas / Arab aggression under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

“illegal settlements” were de-populated by the Israelis in Gaza and the land handed back to Palestinians. You make no mention of them.

I would further comment, the strategic position of the Golan heights (because of their “height”) and other areas, would deem their surrender from Israeli occupation a military disaster. No nation should be forced to surrender land from which it has been attacked and from which future attacks would be certain of forthcoming.

Wanna try again, putz?

Oh when are the democracies going to learn that even totalitarian governments, dictatorships, authoritarian theocracies and terrorist elected by other terrorist have rights man?
It's a free world man. Everybody should be able to do what they want with out consequences dude. Rules are so harsh man. Democracy is such a bummer dude. Like freedom is like something your born with man. It isn't for everybody. Some people need to be kept down. Like Muslims man. Muslims shouldn't have freedoms outside of the dictates of their religion and their leaders. It's just not natural dude. It's like China dude. The Chinese need communism to survive as a people. It's like a fact man that Chinese die outside of communism. And look at Russia man. More proof that some people just can't cope with freedom.
America understands this, dude, which is why it is spreading totalitarianism around the world. It's like a religious message man.
No. No. It's like a message from outer space, man. You don't want to listen but, like you never made a hat out of tin foil. So like now you have no choice. Your like a victim, dude. The aliens are like sending messages in the clear and like people everywhere are self-immolating on democracy, freedom, liberty, justice, rights of the individual, human rights. Like people don't understand man. All that stuff is going to destroy the world dude. That al-Zarqawi dude was so right man when he said, "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology. Totalitarianism is what people understand dude. Freedom of choice causes wars. Oh ya, and people are inherently bad. Which is why like we have prisons dude.
Personally I think like a military dictatorship is best man because like every one marches in a straight line.

=/= DEMOCRATIC PRIORITY =/=

I am trying to think of a post-WWII example, where the US decided to side with pro-democracy groups against an allied government which was not democratic, i.e. when the US was faced with a choice between its own interest and the principles of democracy.

I've just looked up Haiti, which I thought might be promising because I remember the Clinton Administration worked to restore the elected President, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, to power in 1994. However in 2004, Aristide was taken to Africa by the US Military and the circumstances are disputed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haiti_Rebellion)

When I look back, the US often seems to act both against the principles of democracy and its own interests at the same time. But surely there is a clear-cut example were US demonstrated a decisive commitment to democracy above-all and/or in spite of other factors and influences.

Looking forward to your thoughts, if any.

Meliorator
“However the grass isn't always greener on the other side: while our ideal, democratic capitalist giants jockey for position, the Darfuri are still wondering when their "divine" intervention will come.

I am not anti-capitalist. I am not anti-America. I am not even anti-Bush. I'm just anti-stupid!

**Awaits the pending ridicule...**”

I would agree wholly with your post.

I do not think all which Israel has done over the past 40 years since the 1967 war has been laudable or defendable. I do not think everything which USA or the “Allies” have been right.

What I do believe is, on balance, they have been significantly more “right than wrong”

What I do believe is, if countries like USA and Israel were to capitulate to the forces of tyranny and oppression, left or right, which surround us all, we would be in a significantly worse situation than the ones we find ourselves in, with errors, mistakes and the short sighted strategies as played, which we do not necessarily agree with.

Anyone in any doubt, read solzenitzen or try being a “Christian” in some of these “Muslim” countries.

No ridicule form me. Keep posting.

David Latimer
“I am trying to think of a post-WWII example, where the US decided to side with pro-democracy groups against an allied government which was not democratic,”

That is a difficult question because most governments which are allied with USA are DEMOCRATIC to start with, same goes for Australia.

The only US Allies which “spring to mind” and could be called “non-democratic” are the sheikdoms and Monarchies of the middle east, some of which are slowly moving forward along a liberalizing path.

I would further remind you that whilst it did not go to war with South Africa, USA exercised strict technology, trade and arms embargos against the old Apartheid regime and supported “democracy movements” there.

Liken Australia, US supports many democracy movements around the globe where they are struggling with a despotic regime. We can look simply to the protracted struggle with the former USSR, which lasted for almost 50 years, as evidence of that

Crime and punishment has always been a subject that was my interest going as far back as my time still in primary school,when kids got a whipping for just a minor mistake.But those were the teachers that decided punishment for a minor offense.Today we have a different system,western war crims, executing non western war crims both parties guilty of the same crimes against innocent civilians.What a wonderful world