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The Forum > Article Comments > So what’s changed since the most recent war? > Comments

So what’s changed since the most recent war? : Comments

By Keith Kennelly, published 11/1/2007

Israel needs to be told it is out of step with world opinion and decency.

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Mr Kennelly is even handed in his appraisal but will no doubt expect an anti-semitic slap over the knuckles for a critique that challenges the excesses of zionism. I too am amazed at the recent Israeli announcement of new settlements - not expansions of existing ones - and by the double standards of the US and allies over their reaction to Hamas's democratic win. To be sure a new governemnt should be held accountable to a previous administration's actions specifically recognition of recognition Israeli's right to exist. But this really was a loaded gun at the head of Hamas given the abject humiliations heaped on the Palestinians during the long intifada years. Outside of the US, the pathetic denial of funding to Hamas was either very bad diplomacy or a realpolitic assessment of the chances for a comprehensive settlement, two state solution or otherwise. For ordinary Israelis it must be a bleak realisation that their leadership's hardline responses have brought them nothing and that now with the imminent collapse of the US Iraqi campaign it is little wonder that rumours of an IDF attack on Iranian nuclear sites is being heard. They are afterall playing for very high stakes. Their oer-the-top reaction in Lebanon mid 2006 was just an example
Posted by jup, Thursday, 11 January 2007 12:35:39 PM
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Abraham Lincoln: … Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, every where. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors. From the September 11, 1858 Speech at Edwardsville.

Then, again, you can always grant Casino licences to the Indians you displaced :) At least it means they will not feel too hard done by.
I wonder who used to inhabit 'Edwardsville' before the White man ?

I just make that point to illustrate how 'lofty words' spoken by winners are never quite what they seem. The 'enduring principles' they speak of, are spoken on the graves of the defeated. So such principles are always 'ethnocentric'. They apply yes..but really they only apply as long as we are the winners.

Israel ? the reason for all the on going strife (Keith..watching ?) is the lack of a 'final solution'. The problem of 'human rights' and all the modern day Lincolns who (on the graves of course of the previous inhabitants) look at Israel and go "tut tut..don't be too harsh on the Palestinians."

Here in Sydney Hizb Ut Tahrir were sending out pamphlets

"The (event's) promotional material was shocking," Cr Mihailuk said. "It showed daggers with blood put through the state ofIsrael".

"It would have certainly breached our conditions of hire in that it would incite racial vilification and violence."

The spokesman for Hizb ut-Tahrir, Wassim Doureihi, rejected theclaims as "baseless".

COMMENT Gee..I did NOT see 'that' coming !

I remind readers of my previous references to a 'final solution'.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 11 January 2007 3:06:53 PM
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"Provocatively taking the lands of the Palestinian people is not only outlawed internationally but is the largest single cause of Arab discontent."

Bollocks. The largest single source of Arab discontent is the dysfunctional state of Arab societies, which despite billions of dollars in Western aid continue to demonstrate how dysfunctional and backward Arab culture plainly is. Israel is a convenient whipping boy for people who can't solve their own problems and seek to scapegoat the Jews.

"the firing of a few rockets by a few terrorists from Gaza and rhetoric in far away capitals is far outweighed in seriousness and provocativeness by the official Israeli Government actions of illegally settling and retaining Palestinian land."

Try thousands of rockets, including those fired in the war started by Hezbollah. The rockets being fired from Gaza, incidentally, get more accurate all the time. I wonder if someone was aiming missiles at your town whether you would describe it in such mild terms. This, in the middle of what is supposed to be a ceasefire. And describing something as "far away rhetoric" is a pathetic attempt to downplay the genocidal ravings of that Iranian madman who is intent on threatening Israel and the region with nuclear weapons.

"Those captive Israeli soldiers, Israel’s spark for the war, have still not been freed in Gaza or Lebanon although negotiations are taking place. Israel still has thousands of Palestinian detainees, detained without trial."

Israel's spark for the war? Incredible. Israel can be endlessly attacked and people like this do not even raise an eyebrow. But when Israel dares to respond, the Israel haters can't wait to condemn it. And Palestinian detainees are mostly suspected terrorists, the Israeli soldiers were kidnapped from Israeli soil. Equating the two is wicked.

The history of this conflict is of Israel making endless concessions and overtures for peace and the Palestineans showing their preference for murdering civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.

I weep for the Jews when I read such revoltingly biased commentary. If it's not anti-Semitism to hold Israel to such twisted standards, then what is it, eh?
Posted by grn, Thursday, 11 January 2007 3:12:16 PM
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"The “defensive wall” still encircles pockets of Palestinian lands."

Actually it encircles Israel. It is similar to Hadrian's Wall, the Wall of China or the walls built recently between Mexico and the US or between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"However the firing of a few rockets by a few terrorists from Gaza and rhetoric in far away capitals is far outweighed in seriousness and provocativeness by the official Israeli Government actions of illegally settling and retaining Palestinian land."

- Rockets only kill people, taking their land is serious.

"Even Hamas before the democratic and UN supervised Palestinian elections dropped the destruction of Israel demand from its election manifesto."

- Pity about the rockets and suicide bombs.

"So what’s changed since the recent war? Very little, except Israel, within weeks of the end in Lebanon, auctioned Palestinian land"

- Yes land is more important than firing of rockets.

"Peace might be yet found in the region if the US acts with the same sense and convictions of its founding fathers as well as with the resolution, fortitude and generosity shown by generations of Americans."

- Are you referring to Cuba, Mexico, Panama or Puerto Rico?

Keith, don't quit your day job.
Posted by logic, Thursday, 11 January 2007 5:27:43 PM
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A clear appraisal of Israel Palestine is impossible for humans with their petty little backing of their football team approach but how nice it would be if the promise of the observations of the baboons in Kenya could come to pass.
Baboons are territorial and very aggressive with a strict hierarchy but it was observed for one tribe the ‘old guard ‘ was killed by eating contaminated scrounged meat.
Normally the new guard would be equally aggressive territorial, female bullying and hierarchal but no the new leaders were more placid cooperative etc. and so it continued to further generations The tribal behaviour was distinctly different as reported by Natalie Angier in the New York times based on anthropological studies.
Several thoughts come to mind. This might be a bed time story for children training them to be cooperative empathetic etc all those items we give voice to in our chosen religions or it might be a media stories placed to ennoble the leaders or it might be the trivia of the media to which we are so accustomed.
But what if it were true, it is a reseach paper and not April 1 Humans and Baboons? Well we share most of our DNA but of course baboons have no soul so the relevance is nil.
But, but just suppose that such were possible that Baboons for a time at least were showing human’s an alternative behaviour. all fights did not cease but overt aggression was markedly lessened.

They of course do not have a media to pass the leaders thoughts insecurities desires and fears to the ‘tribe’ but they do have leadership.
No I am dreaming humans must have their special pleading the ability to murder and then go to Church, cleansed or media dissembling, The lazy acceptance of what the media provides wqill do the same. Profitable venture, power and profit at the expense of others is common. The expense cleansed by gift and cleared by partisan history.
So we can still barrack for our team and give our children knowing our leaders will honour their memories.
Posted by untutored mind, Thursday, 11 January 2007 6:31:53 PM
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Please Mr Kennelly, when you give opinions do make sure you have the whole of the history for what has brought about the current situation at your fingertips. As I recall, (and I am old enough to recall it) it was the Arabs, who, in 1948 declared they would never let the Jews live in the land that at long last they were allowed to call a home. It was the Arabs who said that they would not rest until every Jew was murdered by driving into the sea. They have done everything to bring the destruction of Israel about, including so many things that I could cite that it would take several books. Your biased opinions are so loaded that it grieves me severely to know of them.
Arcticdog.
Posted by arcticdog, Monday, 15 January 2007 11:27:56 AM
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