Numbat - The credibility of a writer who has been found to have made stuff up to make a name and money for herself is always clearly in question.

SkepticLawyer. I'm not irritated, nor suprised given your history, that you would continue to push a line of discredited rubbish. Your skepticism obviously only extends to things you don't like. I merely post to point out the glaring errors in your poorly researched piece.

Pericles - I find it highly amusing that you were entertained by Helen's factually incorrect article. That fits you quite well.

Romany - any 'classicist' or 'historian' would laugh you out of their office. Attis' christian parrallel's are either plain old false (e.g. the 25th of december birthday [no such date is historically recorded], death on 'black friday' [He was killed by a spear or the boar in a boar hunting accident or he bled to death after self-mutilation at the base of a pine tree]) or are merely spin (e.g. the 'virgin birth' or rising from the dead -> Attis was stopped from decaying, and his hair continued to grow, but that was about it)

Similarly, Dionysus, Osiris and Mithras parrallels are plain wrong
Stories of parrallels may fool those who want Christianity to be merely a set of stolen stories, but to anyone who bothers to research, it is clear they are just pitiful attempts by desparate and dishonest people.

C'mon Grey,

You know as well as I do that Helen Dale is basically correct in what she says. Hair splitters like you can always find trivial matters to dispute in anything important. How else do you think that Christianity got split into hundreds of sects - with more emerging all the time?

I realize that you would like Christianity to be more than just a much tarted up collection of mostly recycled myths and legends. This, I presume, is because you fear death and really, truly wish that you will live again. Sorry mate, it wont happen. You will die and rot like the rest of us.

Grey, I assume that you an elderly curmudgeon, but you should try to cultivate a hobby that does not involve a head full of angry fantasy. Life is immensely good and should be lived. If you tried it you might even like it and maybe, one day, even like yourself.

You should also use your real name, or does the thought make you quake with fear?

Farewell,

Fred Thornett

Lol Fred. You're funny.

Helen is indeed basically correct, except for the factual errors, logical errors and red herrings that make up the bulk of her article. Your generalisations are just as useless as my last sentence.

Perhaps Fred, when you start to do some real investigation into history and logic you may learn something other than out of date and refuted arguments. I won't be holding my breath though.

I don't care whose religious festival it is.It is all about our history that has brought us to this point in time.

Without the discipline and passion of those who believed,we would have all been lesser beings.

I'm agnostic,however I still see a lot of worth in the traditional religious institutions in terms of ethics,fairness and the rule of law.

Our greatest dilemma is;how are we going to replace religious,sacrifice,dedication and honesty with secular,hedonistic self indulgence?

Arjay, interesting comments. You seem quite cynical about atheism. May I ask why you are agnostic? Is it because you can't see any reason to believe either way? (Just curious).

Thought this, written by one of my friends, was relevant to the discussion:

"American Dad: "If I can't say it, we can't celebrate it!"

I don't like stooping this low but Christmas gets me in the mood! I see the santas, the reindeer, shopping, fake snow and it gets me into that spirit! And it's this spirit that gave birth to this idea:

Christianity needs to take every secular holiday, give it an overtly Christian message, then advertise that message publicly and get offended when people don't adopt our new take on the holiday.

That's absurd Adam!

Why? People are doing the opposite to Christmas!

I find it ironic that it took Walmart stepping in to save 'Merry Christmas' from 'Happy Holidays'. The very idea that people get offended at 'Merry Christmas' makes me laugh. This is what I'd like to see happen, if you don't like 'Christmas', that's fine. Celebrate 'Holiday'. But leave the Santa, the riendeer, the elves, the presents, the fake snow, baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph and all the barnyard animals with Christmas (even though 1/2 that list isn't really Christmas) and find a new way to celebrate your greed and consumerism (I'll even let you keep the 25th, hell, we stole the day from the pagans!).

There, I said it.

Merry Christmas."

Grey, as you know, it is my life's work to keep you in chuckles:

>>Pericles - I find it highly amusing that you were entertained by Helen's factually incorrect article<<

I note with a tinge of sadness that you didn't respond with any factual rebuttal of my comments on your own inaccuracies, but that would be a little too much to expect. Ad hominem is far more your style, together with glib generalities.

It is probably far too late to suggest that you actually get a life?