"I've put my case up. Now its time for someone to post how capital punishment IS a deterrent."

Carsten, you are free to fiddle around with figures to make your
case. The thing is, a whole lot of variables play into this argument,
you certainly have shown no reason for them to be excluded and that
your case has merit.

You have also ignored the victims. In the case of say Saddam, there
are thousands of them. Many claimed that the day he was strung up,
was the happiest day of their lives! I have no problem with the
fact that these people now sleep better.

At the end of the day, turning the other cheek is a dismal failure.
Tit for tat means that people understand that there are consequences
for their actions. Let the victimes of Saddam now sleep peacefully,
knowing that he got what he deserved, even if a few protest, too bad

Saddam wasn't hung for nothing. He was hung because he turned on his masters. We shoot rogue animals don't we? Saddam would be sitting in relative comfort and knocking off the odd Iraqi citizen as ever before had he allowed the U.N. weapons inspectors full access as Bush asked and not tried to play at "chicken". Of course when Saddam went after Kuwait I figured he had a bit of the old death wish.
I'm not going to argue the merits or detractions of capital punishment. Saddam wasn't hung for his crimes, he was hung because he was stupid. He'd been committing crimes against humanity and his own people since he was a lad and long before the USA, Britain, France, Germany, Russia or anyone else showed up to sell the idiot gas, guns or ammo.

I too am basically opposed to capital punishment. But all this fuss about Saddam! Surely there are people on death row who deserve more attention.

What about death by stoning, still practiced, according to Amnesty, in Iran? And for the offence of adultery. And usually applied to women.

Or the trial in Bangla Desh of Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury? A Muslim editor and journalist in Bangla Desh he has been beaten, imprisoned and is now facing a trial for sedition, treason and blasphemy, a charge which can bring the death sentence. Why? He reported on the rise of Al Qaida and wanted to foster peace between Muslims and Jews. This disgraceful trial has been completely ignored by the lefties and the press. I wonder why.

And surely the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent to dictators is so far untested. These people make the laws - they think that they can get away with whatever they decree.

And there are advantages to some people in Saddam's death. The relatives of his victims can sleep better knowing that he can no longer harm them and they now have closure. Ask yourself what would have happened if Hitler had lived and was placed in prison? Some people we are better off without.

At the end of the day, turning the other cheek is a dismal failure.
Tit for tat means that people understand that there are consequences
for their actions. Let the victimes of Saddam now sleep peacefully,
knowing that he got what he deserved, even if a few protest, too bad
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 6 January 2007 11:48:58 PM

Actually - it is the death penalty that is the dismal failure.

It does not deter murder, particularly in the case of brutal dictators like Saddam. Is the next dictator (Mugabe perhaps?) going to refrain because of the fear of execution? I think not.

Even if the guilty are executed, the victims are still dead, and the families still have to live with that loss.

It is untrue, also, that all families seek and gain closure by execution (http://www.mvfr.org/DeathPenaltyFacts.htm). And while families may claim to want execution for 'closure', I challenge you to find any example of a family member who has found closure by execution of the guilty.

Is there anyone who has been close to a victim of murder (family, friend) who is still for the death penalty?

I understand the knee-jerk reaction - and am trying to get people to think beyond that.

For me the arguement is actually very simple, ask yourself what you would rather, to be executed, or to spend every single day of the rest of your life in a maximum security prison, easy choice for me.

carsten

You are failing to understand the chasm of difference between a murderer and a murderous dictator.

Studies done on families of victims of individual murders would have little if any relevance to the Saddam, Hitler, Pinochet cases where entire populations were suppressed and lived in a state of fear. If nothing else an alive Saddam could still be released by supporters and restored to power. Thus several million Iraqis might have justifiable fears of a Saddam alive.

I am surprised that anti-capital punishment people of whom I am one would spend so much effort on such a monster when there is a real risk of re offending and consequential damage to so many, rather than address the real wrongs such as the slaughtered women in Iran and Salah Choudhury.