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The Forum > Article Comments > Loyalty may hurt sometimes, but not as much as betrayal > Comments

Loyalty may hurt sometimes, but not as much as betrayal : Comments

By Mirko Bagaric, published 15/12/2006

How Downer nailed the response to Iraq - it’s (nearly) all about loyalty, stupid.

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It's one thing not to support a crime, it's another to be in on it from the get go, and to then duck out when the going gets tough, and still expect a share in the pay off. Australians can act naive and protest that their just victims of American strong arming and what ever is anti-American in a rush to be politically correct but the world isn't listening. Their watching our local behavior and how we're playing with our neighbours. Just like we're not buying the anti-American rants from elsewhere but observing more local relationships. You can't talk about Afghanistan without including Pakistan. You can't talk about Kashmir with out talking about Pakistan and India. You can't talk about India with out talking about Pakistan. And it goes on around the world.
If the United States was uninvoled in world affairs and were practising isolationist the same whingers would be out in full force.
Wasn't another poster saying that America didn't come into WWII to assist Australia until after Japans attack on Pearl Harbour?
We don't need to point at America to underline bungled foreign policy or well meaning intervention. Australia has her own history.
Posted by aqvarivs, Saturday, 16 December 2006 8:48:51 AM
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If something controversial in the US activities it’s steadily allowing a former colonial master, which is the UK, still benefiting on country’s resources and projects.

Upon her history, Australia, a back-yard of England in Southern Hemisphere, just practically executes colonial master’s orders alike sending own people if even sexually overactive STD highly effected lusters of Cairo contingent on slaughtering the Gallipoly the top most perfect example is.
Posted by MichaelK., Saturday, 16 December 2006 9:14:29 AM
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Mirko, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Loyalty is the same as patriotism. Blind obediance or fear of peer pressure. The result is what is happening world wide today. Be loyal to your religion, your country, your Political Party and accept you have given up thinking and making decisions. As such you must also accept responsibility for the state of the Union etc.

As to the US being our best mate. When was the last time they actually helped us in war? Don't say WW2 as they only entered due to Pearl Harbour. Did they charge up to PNG to help the blokes at Kokoda? The answer is NO. The biggest asset the US has militarily is the fear of the US forces. If you use them that fear goes away as they are just people, not Supermen. That's what invading Iraq has exposed, they are not afraid of war or the US at all.

As an aside can anyone tell me when the US last "won" a war? When was the last succesful invasion of another country? Again, apart from use of excessive force in WW2 they haven't "won" anything. They have always retreated in shame or left before the war was actually over.

I can only think of their own Civil War when they fought each other. They won that one!

As to Iraq, please give this line of "they were better off under Saddam" a miss. They were not. A percentage were but there were one or two people (sarcasm) who were not better off under Saddam as that is where they are now. Underground, under Saddam. Ridiculous argument.

If Saddam had been the target a sniper would have been sufficient so think again. It was never about removing Saddam and everyone knows that, it's just the last excuse on the list.
Posted by RobbyH, Saturday, 16 December 2006 10:56:53 AM
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RobbyH, how exactly are wars fought these days? Groups of insurgents hiding amongst civillians, or better still veiled women? Is this your idea of warfare? And you actually wonder why it is virtually impossible to 'win' a war in these circumstances, especially when the bleeding hearts back home call 'retreat' every time another exloding car kills police recruits, actually justifying the cause for being there in the first place.
Seems you are nostalgic for the days when there actually was a hint of honour or dignity in war (if such a thing is possible).
Posted by trueaussie, Saturday, 16 December 2006 3:02:55 PM
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"RobbyH, how exactly are wars fought these days? Groups of insurgents hiding amongst civillians, or better still veiled women? Is this your idea of warfare?"
Yes! It's called asymmetric warfare and is the ONLY way for resistance to fight a classic army.

Secondly, it is a mischaracterisation to say they are hiding amongst civilians and also extremely ludicrous. The civilians live in the cities ffs.

Lastly the war wasn't a failure because of rational objections. It was a failure from the very beginning stages of planning when all the strategists believed in a utopian fantasy of Joyful Liberation.
Posted by Steel, Sunday, 17 December 2006 12:40:05 AM
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Loyalty? Recently some politician said: 'I'm loyal'. Who cares? If that is all a person has to offer, they have nothing.
The alternative spelling for loyalty is 'stupidity' --- as in joining an illegal invasion!
Posted by petere, Sunday, 17 December 2006 1:34:36 AM
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