Uh... is Bagaric actually arguing that loyalty exists beyond self interest when it comes to international relations?

Hmm... I seem to recall our loyal partner Britain wasn't too keen on assisting our troops to come home to combat the japanese. Sure they said they could leave, though they wouldn't give them transport.
And let's never mind the slaughter at Gallipoli.

So the Americans came to assist in the wake of Pearl Harbor. Joy. Note that phrase 'in the wake of pearl harbor' it was less about the rest of us than it was about them.

The US will remain friendly toward Australia as long as it does not place too great a demand on them. They need all the friends they can get right now. If however, it became inconvenient to keep Australia as a friend, then by all means we would be dropped.

There would also be repercussions if we adopted protectionist economic policies.

Make no mistake - the US is our friend... as long as it works for them, loyalty be damned.

Sincerity is the highest moral value, if you have that then the rest fall in line.
Loyalty can also mean saying to your mate "hey we have stuffed up here lets rethink this" if you don't do that its just toadyism.
Howard has a different line he is going to stay the course, we must assume that means staying even if the Yanks leave.Who is he being loyal to?

Loyalty also means when your mate is doing something stupid that is harming themselves or others, you kick them up the butt and tell them to get their act together. You don't bail on them, you get them back on track.
The problem with Oz and big tough older brother Yankyland is that we wouldn't have the guts to pull them in to line. We are more of a Merino than a Labrador.

loy·al·ty:

A feeling or attitude of devoted attachment and affection.

be·tray:

To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance

* *

Mirko, in the events of the last few years, who pray is the betrayer and who the betrayed? When does loyalty become an act of betrayal - and to whom?

What is the point of sailing your little paper boat of truth on an ocean of lies?

The reasons for invading Iraq - all lies. The betrayed were loyal to the betrayers. Is loyalty to lunacy a virtue? Is it OK to be loyal to liars? Are we just messing with words?

Loyalty and betrayal are ideological concepts which can so easily smother one's basic instincts of right and wrong. If we ever get Downer, Howard and Rudduck before the ICC, loyalty won't butter any fish with the judges.

- any more than it did at Nuremberg.

In his last article, the author claimed that he thinks Australia should become the '51st State' of the USA. Gee, he sure is loyal alright. He's got a bloody hide to lecture Australians about loyalty.

And again, a nice tidy black and white picture: 'loyalty' on one side of the neat line, and 'betrayal' on the other. The most simple formula in the world. With us or against us. Is that what it was like in Croatia, Mr. Loyalty?

Mirko

Your article is touching on a familial level (bordering on Lala Land) but has little relevance to dry realpolitik or economics.

Before the 2003 invasion of Iraq Australia's main interest in that country was the wheat trade. Australia, like other Western nations, also saw Iraq as being a long term source of oil. Australia's participation in the invasion and occupation of Iraq therefore has much to do with our interests in maintaing market share for wheat and having a future "say" in how Iraq's oil resources are divided up.

We couldn't have done it by ourselves. The US was the key to open the door.

Loyalty is too soppy a word "quid pro quo" (something for someting) is more accurate. As well as wheat and oil we were in Iraq to service our defence alliance with the US - ANZUS - something very few Americans have heard about.

Put simply - for our boots on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan the US provides Australia with political and military support in our own region, particularly regarding Indonesia.

Few peoplle are aware that Australia could not have intervened in East Timor in 1999 (INTERFET) without concerted US political efforts to twist the arms of the Indonesians and a large US marine force sitting, waiting, in Dili Harbour, to take-on the Indonesians if necessary.

The some mutual support dynamic (help in Iraq for help over East Timor) applies today. Note that East Timor is also partly an oil issue for Australia.

Save your loyalty stuff for the sociologists Mirko. Australia gets a return for its investment in Iraq. But if Australians start dying in Iraq are role in its occupation may be too expensive for us.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/