“Few things can be as important to an individual as their citizenship. Along with a person’s name, sex and age one’s citizenship (or nationality) is a key defining individual characteristic.”

Baloney in the very first sentence. Citizenship has nothing to do with nationality, or at least the way people see themselves. People, who have been Australian citizens since the year dot, including those people born here but of “ethnic” background, still think of themselves as something other than Australians.

In Australia, citizenship – thanks to its devaluation by politicians and other multiculturalists - is a matter of convenience: a nice country to live in with all of the benefits mentioned by the author, but with the right to hold dual citizenship so that the “Australians” can travel back and forth at will and even live full time in their country of origin – there is always the bolthole of Australia thanks to the citizenship of convenience.

The author claims that there is no evidence that immigrants are taking their citizenship seriously.

Fiddlefaddle! There is evidence in the media everyday in the comments and actions of minority groups living in their ghettos, whining for their old ways and criticising ours.

Robb’s paper might “fail to provide any evidence that people are refusing to learn English”. Van Vliet’s article fails to provide evidence that they are!

Van Vliet gets one thing right: Howard’s stupid remark about Greeks. They are among the worst offenders in hanging onto something they no longer should. Give me Asians any day if we really need migrants at certain times for the good of Australia.

There is need for only one change to current immigration: stop it altogether. We are overpopulated as it is. Bringing more ‘future eaters’ to Australia – unless they are absolutely essential for the good of Australia, is suicide – culturally, economically and environmentally

‘…citizenship is being thrown around “like confetti”. The implications here are that people are not taking their new Australian citizenship seriously. Yet there is no evidence provided to back up this claim.’ Might the evidence be found in the 20,000 loyal Australian citizens recently found living in South Lebanon some of whom include enthusiastic supporters of Hezbollah? It is a paradox that a person can swear allegiance to two countries.

The author reminds us that the right to vote is part of being granted citizenship but the right to vote should be removed from all of us until we learn to elect a federal ALP government.

The author expresses concern about a misstep that may take us back 40 years yet doesn’t have any worries about a group wanting to take us back to the 7th century. This sort of sloppiness creeps in when some policies are quarantined from public scrutiny.

The author has taken the opportunity to remind us of UN protections for individuals and following on from that Article 24 of the Universal Book of Commonsense quite plainly states that a country can achieve more if we all move in the one direction.

The welcome mat is still out it’s just that we seek genuine citizens rather than people who are no more than citizenship ‘tourists’.

Wow this bloke wants to have an even looser idea of what it is to be Australian and uses the fact that many people already live in Australia cant speak a word of English as good reason why it is not necessary to teach it to them or for them to be bothered to learn it. I mean hey when you come from a third world country and earn a $1 a day why would you be bothered learning English when centerlink will give you hundreds of dollars a week for doing nothing? You just ring them up in your native language demand to speak to someone who speaks that language, (other wise cry foul and sue them for discrimination) then just sit back and watch the money flow in turn on al jizra and chant death to the west!

Citizenship is a huge privilege and ever since we have been giving it out every time someone buys a big mac at mcdonalds its value to those who receive it has declined from “I am happy and proud to be an Australian” too “Give me my f*$#ing citizenship aussie I deserve it as much as the last ungrateful son of a b!tch does”

It makes me sick!

I live and work in a remote Aboriginal community. In 1996 some people came here from Fiji as supposed 'missionaries' for a church. They were granted access to the Australian Aboriginal CDEP employment program by accident, because like our locals they were coloured and also did not speak good English. Their foreign nationality may have been missed.

They collectively received over $150,000 undeservedly and now show absolutely no intention of returning that money that was ill gotten, albeit given in error presumably, if not as result of outright fraud. They would have known no doubt at the time that they should not have been accepting Australian support as foreign workers. Their Church which is world wide certainly should have known Australian laws.

The family has recently become Australian through citizenship. I raised the matter of the mistaken money payment and one family member merely shrugged and said...'well why should you worry...it is only the government's money...not your's?".

So that is the stance of a brand new Australian! Boy am I proud to know that lot! (Banpokies1 WA)

Heaven forbid that we should discriminate against non-English speaking migrants! I mean, it's not like Australia's immigration program should primarily be for the benefit of Australia, or that English speakers (of whatever skin colour) integrate better into our society. No, that wouldn't be the case would it! Personally I've always thought the fact that we make English our national language is horribly racist. All government forms should be printed in all languages spoken in this country. Let's not discriminate (shudder!).

And what about those horrible barriers we put in front of citizenship. Of course citizenship will be taken much more seriously if we put up no barriers at all!
And we don't want to be like those nasty Germans do we! After all, if an immigrant population fails to integrate (like the Turks in Germany) it's all the fault of the host country, isn't it! I mean, that's just obvious!

Autralia(uns) care little about citizenship - so much so we gave it to a squillionaire snow monkey from Canada just so he could win a gold medal at the winter Olympics - cant say I have seen too much complaining about that little fiasco

Very few of us have even pledged allegance to the country - at least new immigrants actually have to do that - if we're born here we just get the mantle by default - I find it rather amusing that some actually take inordiante pride in something they had nothing to do with - being a citizen by birth right is certainly no achievement - some of us just got lucky

the citizen ship debate has been raised - and quite some time ago as another barrier to immigration - another means of stalling the arrival of "those people" with out having to say we dont want them out loud -

There is not overly much wrong with the authors position on this topic - and I think many Australians are tiring of the Vanstone Howard take on this subject - I think the fact that they, Cosgtello and Nelson have shut up about it suggest it didnt get the traction they desired - and these guys, past masters of leading from behind, know when the sentiment blows against them.

The political pendulum is swinging against them on this issue - and a few otthers as well.

Leigh claims citizenship has been devalued by politicians and multiculturalists - I do need some education on this matter - but when were the days when we as a nation valued it all that much - when were the heady days of citizen ship fever?

Citizenship never had a value here

I was born here yet I hardly give citizenship a thought. I definitely don’t value citizenship per se, especially because so many “Ustrayuns” are inconsiderate, law breakers, vandals, litterers and polluters. In fact day by day my displeasure at the people and authorities in Australia grows. It is high time to work on improving what we’ve got. We could start by ceasing government funding for discriminatory and unnecessary organisations like the ethnic community councils.

Well said sneekeepete,.

I think the common attitude is that citizenship is more like membership to some sort of exclusive club where its value is in direct proportion to the degree of "exclusivity" it invokes.

It's just another layer of tribalism and is more threatened by globalism than domestic issues.

Cultures simply change and evolve over time. Like the rest of the world, Australia 2006 is not much like the Australia I remember from 1996, 1966 or even 1956.

For example, at current population and ethnic growth rates, Spanish will overtake English as the most widely spoken language in the USA within 50 years. I await their plans to round-up and expel all the Hispanics and Mexicans from their lands.

I'm not at all sure I agree with the opening two sentences.

>>Few things can be as important to an individual as their citizenship. Along with a person’s name, sex and age one’s citizenship (or nationality) is a key defining individual characteristic<<

I know it is nicely hedged around with qualifiers - "few" things "can" be as important - but it is a bit of a long bow to draw, isn't it? Only politicians, and others who don't actually work for a living have the luxury of considering the country name on the front of their passport to be a critical "defining individual characteristic".

As has been pointed out already, for every one of us the particular location of our birth, and the residential status or otherwise of our parents, is a complete lottery. I didn't choose to be born where I was, nor did any of you. We arrive in this world, we look around, and we make the best job we can of the capabilities we are given, mental, physical and environmental. Surely, that is the "defining individual characteristic", not the label that we choose to slap on our foreheads marked "my country".

I'm sure the author is well-meaning, and would like us to reduce our natural levels of xenophobia through the gentle application of logic. Unfortunately, in order to do so he sees fit to magnify, even glorify, the condition of citizenship itself - which is, ironically, the very weapon used by rabid nationalists to support their own hatred of "things that are different".

The history of immigration thus far has been, I would suggest, overwhelmingly positive, and there is little reason to believe this will change in the future. What will change in the future is, of course, the nature and make-up of the country itself. Just as the generations of Irish, English, Greek, Italian, Vietnamese, Chinese and others have changed the country over the past sixty years.

It is not possible to stand still. Learn to love change, and the debate on immigration goes away.

Why do I get the impression that these people who say citizenship doesn't matter, national identity doesn't matter, live in whiter than white suburbs, whose closest encounter with the multiculturalism they so claim to love is ordering thai takeaway on a friday night.

I would have thought if one is committed to coming to a country, one would have the common courtesy of understanding the language the road markings are written in and the principle language spoken by thew majority of the population.

On this last point we have seen, recently, observed a demented Muslim Cleric complaining that he is being continually misrepresented by everyone because, despite parading himself as some form of "leader" he does not understand or can adequately communicate in English. I would claim it is his responsibility to ensure that his outbursts are commonly understood and not open to such misinterpretation if he wishes to don the mantel of "leader of anything".

So to the final statement “Australian society should be encouraged we should not introduce a discriminatory citizenship test in Australia”

Why should we be “encouraged” ?

Why should we not be “encouraged” to expect people who come here to exercise sufficient respect the systems and processes of life in Australia.

Every citizen is expected to respect the laws which govern us and as a first step, learning the language in which those laws are inscribed is not optional, it is fundamental.

If someone would care to translate, for the benefit of all English non-speakers, "ignorance" is no excuse under the law and lacking the ability to read English displays an "ignorance" of the grossest sort.

Is itn't time that we said to aspirant resident of Australia, you are welcome, BUT...

We are English speaking here and we dont offer multilingual brochures and services - go and learn English by integrating.

We welcome you for two years after that you must decide if you want to stay and hand in your passport and receive an Australian one (on predefined terms), or go back. No dual nationalities!

We live under British Law and principles. If you want to practice Sharia law, go home.

Finally let's accept that we still derive much of our export income from our "capital" meaning mining and rural produce. Immigration is like selling shares in our country. We should do it with caution.

Grn asks: "Why do I get the impression that these people who say citizenship doesn't matter, national identity doesn't matter, live in whiter than white suburbs, whose closest encounter with the multiculturalism they so claim to love is ordering thai takeaway on a friday night."

Grn, the answer to your question is: 'because you're too lazy to bother asking where we DO live, and you don't want your lazy assumptions challenged.'

But I'm happy to report that my Bengali, Chinese, Greek, Columbian, Filipino, Thai, Sudanese, Japanese, Korean and Anglo neighbours here in Ashfield aren't stewing in our juices worrying too much about citizenship or national identity. We're just getting on with our humble suburban lives, and we're no threat to yours.

And I don't need to order Thai takeaway on a Friday night because my Tom Yum Goong, Pad Thai, Fish cakes, green chicken curry and laksa all beat the stuffing out of the local takeaway. (The secret is growing your own lemongrass and kaffir lime trees.)

THE RAPE OF EUROPE.

Well there goes old Bozo again... off on his usual crusade....
But I'll get to that in a minute.

All I can say about this shift to "selective and exclusive" in terms of immigration and citizenship is the more and sooner the better.
Socially positive discrimination in immigration is one of the most responsible acts a government of an independant country can perform.

This is clearly evidenced by the current 'rape' of Europe. Cultural and ethnic intrusion which cannot be reversed. Just like a real life rape of a woman.

It is not without Irony that the EU headquarters in Brussells is built on a model of the incomplete Tower of Babel, and the symbol (sculpture) outside it is in fact a woman on a bull, which refers to the myth of the rape of 'Europa' in Greek mythology. Had I not seen this with my own eyes I would have said "yeah..right..pull the other one"

I want to ask some questions which do relate to the subject, but having already exhausted everyones good will on the usual bullet point list of immigration related things, I want to take a different tak this time. You can interpret this information in the context of 'Europe and Immigration and lessons for Australia', but this goes further.

1/ What was/is, the 'throne of satan' referred to in Revelation 2.13
2/ If it exists today, where is it ?
3/ What is the Temple of Pergamum ?
4/ What was the deity worshipped in it ?
5/ If it exists, where is it ?
6/ The 'bull' on which the woman is seated in the scupture outside EU parliament has what significance in the greek myth of the rape of Europa? (what god does it allude to, and how is this connected with Islam ?)

Does this have any significance for the influx of Muslims to Europe ?

Am I seeing a therapist ? no :

Along with every other comment.Australian Citizenship does nothing to help Aussie born or overseas born Aussies to like Australia or more importantly for the Politians THE GOVERNMENT.
The Federal governments,since the black days of the Hawke years has forced decent Australians who happened by born be born overseas feel different.
I have asked a Dutch born Aussie who was one year old when he arrived why he has not taken out CitiZenship.His comment was why should I.
Australian Citizenship is great if you want to steal free benefits
from hard working Aussie taxpayers.It means nothing to Australians who were born and bred in Oz.
Before the Hawke government changed the rules Australians were obtained British passports which became EU passports.
Dame Edna,Sir Robert Helpmann all were entiltled to this priledge.
Today Aussies have to be treated along with third world visa holders.
Joining in the third world queues at all major inmternational airports.
Now for the real history lesson.
"Ten years ago a party of Aussies,Canadians,British and Americans borded a train for Moscow from Poland at the Bellorussian border all had their visas taken.
On the Russian border only the Australians were denighed entry. They had to go back to the Russian Embassy in Estonia to get another visa."
This is just one story that Australian Citizens are never told about.
Another story," a sixty five year old Oz Passport holder is pushed off the bus into the snow on the Czech border she was the only Australian carrying only one passport.The other Oz tourists had various European passports unbeknow to the Old Oz.

So COMPULSORY citizenship after say two years passing basic English and knowledge about this country or GO HOME! No dual citizenships either.

I came to this country aged seven and within one year, we spoke english at home. Multiculturalism requires a revisit in Australia. While we may benefit from multicultural immigration and its expressions (eg skills, restaurants etc) but that is not to say that we have to fragment the country with some unpleasant expressions around the world of that folly.

A cake is only nice after mixing. Why make an exception here in Australia with people?

Proud to call myself Australian.

I think we send mixed messages on immigration, and this will ultimately rebound on us.

The wretched of the earth who seek asylum from dreadful governments and appalling societies get the cold shoulder. Highly skilled people with much to contribute are fawned over. We know that people who came here with seemingly little to offer (including, at the time of their arrival, not being able to speak English) have contributed enormously to Australia. People are entitled to conclude that we don't know who we really are and don't know what we really want. A nation content to wallow in this confusion, or "celebrate" it, must accept whatever future fate may dish out to it for it cannot shape its destiny effectively.

Our prisons are full of people who speak English perfectly well.

I still find it incomprehensible that a nation whose post war achievements rest on the shoulders of an army of people who did not speak english well - and many of whom still do not - all of a sudden see the capacity to do so - or be prepared to do so - as an attribute newcomers now must posses in order to be welcome.

I will not even begin to talk about the nonsense suggested about other tests that might suggest an immigrant is worthy to come here -

I have said in other places to many of us have been spooked by Tampa, Bali and 9/11 - the panic is passing - for most people at least - it will almost be forgotten when Howard goes.

Sneekeepete “whose post war achievements rest on the shoulders of an army of people who did not speak english well”

What utter rubbish.

The “post war achievements” of Australia are not merely limited to digging holes through the Snowy Mountains or being able to cook souvlaki and even if they were I would note the professional engineers who guided those who did not “speak English well” and the tax payers who, through the elected government, funded the digging project, mostly spoke English well, as a first language.

I am not sure what twisted sense of self deprecation invokes some folk to make such stupid and hapless comments. I guess, from other posts of the same source, I can only presume it is the affirmation of a deep rooted sense of personal inadequacy.

As for “I will not even begin to talk about the nonsense suggested about other tests”

Thank you for sparing us, if your views on that are anything like your views as expressed, you have saved us from boredom and yourself from public humiliation.

I think I might run a competition.

To find out what there is which is more useless than a someone who comes here and posts a declaration to “not even begin to talk”.

Oh regarding “spooked by Tampa, Bali and 9/11”

I am trying to find the link of logic which ties Tampa, Bali and 9/11.
Bali and 9/22 were acts of violent terrorism perpetrated by the most evil of men, whereas “Tampa” was an ocean tragedy, initiated by the selfish desire of some individuals to enter Australia by clandestine and illegitimate means.

Whatever the “logical link” between Tampa and the other 2 events is, it must be pretty twisted too.

I would like to comment on AdrewElder’s observations. My feeling Andrew is that your wretched of the earth are usually the unsettled and unstable from their nation. They did not fit into their previous society for all sorts of reasons. They come to us with their baggage of issues. We pay a heavy price for accepting them and this is reflected in the Lebanese Muslim problem we have now. The Cuban experience is another example. Castro emptied his prisons and sent them off to Florida where the price is still being paid today. I don’t Habib’s history but he turned out a gift from hell and is now determined on supplementing his social security payments with damages claims against the Australian taxpayer.

My two bobs worth on citizenship.

Firstly a citizenship test has nothing to do with someone entering Australia as some have wrongly claimed. It is to gain citizenship for those permanent residents, and others, already here.

Secondly. The proposed minimum time, of four years, one has to spend here is just that, a minimum. It is not citizenship in four years or get out as some have wrongly claimed. It will not matter if someone is here twenty years before applying for citizenship.

I believe Australian citizenship has been too easily obtained. It is worth far more than simply living here for two years. The right to vote and the right to stand for election are worth more than that, without even considering social security benefits and another passport.

Like sage, I too was surprized at the thousands of 'Australians' in Lebanon we had to assist to get out of the place. How is it possible that so many would be in such a small country? I wonder how many were living there and getting our social security. If they had duel citizenship, why did they not ask their 'other country' for assistance.

Not just Lebanon, perhaps we should have a very close look at all other 'Australians' that live in other countries that enjoy far lower living cost than we do.

The author draws a long bow to suggest that any test for citizenship is withdrawing the welcome mat. Other countries have a test, why should we not do similar.

Oh Colonel! - let me start with the Tampa Bali 9/11 correlation - each event has been used - Tampa first - then the others followed - to beat up myths associated with Muslims and Islam and swarthy types in general- and for those of that particular mind set this has been used to further marginalise any one who deosnt fit the poorly articulated mould of appearance and values(puke)

And while I did not mention those who managed the - using your example Snowy Scheme - that fact does not diminish from the efforts of those who dug the holes - or contributed in a raft of other ways to industry science commerce agriculture and the yarts - with or without a grasp of the mother tongue - perhaps I should have used the word "many" or perhaps "some" - in front of post war achievements to gaurd against silly misinterpretations

Then we get to the self depracating assumption - I cant for the life of me find any evidence of self deprecation in a few lines that support migration - and then to use that rather wacky iterpretation as indicating some other form of inadequacy is even sillier - I am a shameless opinionated self promoter - every one knows that - and I fell pretty damn good about myself - so the twisted logic remark really rings hollow here.

And I am now really tempted to talk about the other nonsensical tests suggested - but perhaps another day.

Yours in constant bewiderment at the fear here - The Sneekemeister

A number a posters are sadly correct when they assert that Australian citizenship has been devalued immeasurably as a result of Australia's overly lenient citizenship laws. Here's a little fact - Australia has the most lenient citizenship laws in the industrialised world. No wonder I've heard Australian citizenship referred to as a "bargain", especially if your a third world immigrant seeking access to Centrelink funds. The biggest tragedy is that some of us actually made sacrifices to become Australian. As a result of German nationality laws, my father lost his German citizenship when he was naturalised here back in the 1970s. My father's decision to become Australian effectively deprived me of the right to live and work in the EU. Considering the ease at which Australian citizenship is now obtained, I'm beginning to feel that my family was short-changed.

For some people, an Australian passport is just another one to add to the collection. However, for the rest of us, handing out Australian citizenship like confetti is a slap in the face.

HI REMCO

I noticed with interest your point about the cake is best when 'mixed'.

Could you look at this article I wrote and comment ?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=164#3027

Its on a similar theme I think.
Cheers mate.

TO BOAZ-David
You said "How beautiful it would be, if we had no sense of ‘ethnic division’. If we could all look around and see just ‘Australians’".

How about if we said, here are souls like us. We are one, just people pretending to be different. Comparing, judging, and struggling (yes struggling) to mark ourselves as different to others. Powerplayers (MPs, mullahs, priests etc) trying to promote divisions where they are only in the mind. In the short term, I believe we should stand for an integrated nation, longer term, as we mature as beings, we might learn to cherish the outward differences.

We are Australians.

'Discrimination' is being used once again to complain about the new citizenship requirements.
Determination about who is permitted to enter our country is more important.
We can discriminate everyday about many things, it is also called having a choice, an option . There is nothing wrong with it.
The stupidity comes with having more than one legal nationality.The double passport should be banned and migrants should be forced to choose which country they owe allegiance to. And then live in that country.This was a peaceful land until multiculture. Get rid of it, it is divisive and wrong.

I am a little doubtful about that degree of "anglo-celticness' of Australiaia pre-1950.

Immigrants of Nordic appearance were always welcome here, regardless of cultural background.

Its just that their surnames were anglicised upon arrival!.

All understandable support a responsible law-obedient citizen concerned of straightening a country wants offering to, the aired governmental regulations emphasizing English proficiency as a very basis of and insinuating an Australian mateship as a very ground for granting an Australian citizenship, keep one even of the most enthusiastic devotee out off the Cranulla-2007 naturalization shores.

Even among traditionally imported British monarchs Queen Victoria is remembered in history AND for her poor command English, which does not devaluate her reign as the most substantial upon English royal millennium.

Factually, even internationally acclaimed, non-England-biologically-linked skilled migrants with their international in-English-language-worldwide-presented innovations and surely much better English linguistic skills than a million of fellow completely reading/writing short native English speakers equipped with, are not being employed in national-liberal mateship-ruled contemporary Australia desperately importing skilled foreigners while then practically rejecting new Australian citizens for what they naturally are.

Do the locally allowed being employed among whom British subjects in generations are the all realistically know a difference between Australia and Germany? Hint: Germany is a sovereign historical birthplace of a nation as Australia is a non-sovereign political entity built on a land-grabbing and luring the educated with mirage of opportunities.

MichaelK In future when talking about “English”, you might care to use some “English grammar” too.

As for Queen Victoria, She was English born and bred. Where do you get the notion she had “poor command of English”? Her husband was the German, maybe they chatted privately in pidgeon.

Oh one of my daughters was born here, I do not think she perceives herself as anything but Australian, like her Dad.

“Sovereignty” is where the heart is / we pledge our allegiance, not simply an accident of geography associated with birth.

Hint: some of us believe “life” is about more than just “land-grabbing and luring the educated with mirage of opportunities”.

Thank you, Col Rouge, but no thanks for your usual mentoring concerning English language issues.

However, it would be good to know a meaning of “English” recently as both writing and its sounding definitely vary among English-sphere substantially.

Back to a topic reflecting usual neo-racist approach in this English semi-colony to non-Anglo-Saxons/non-Anglo-Celts happened being trapped in Australia, your further imaginations of queen Victoria might be forwarded to any author of any book on the UK history, as well as your critics concerning my English proficiency might be addressed to Microsoft World creators and technical support services, of whom Grammar and Spell Checking has been used and appreciated worldwide.

MichaelK “English semi-colony to non-Anglo-Saxons/non-Anglo-Celts”

You just don’t get it, do you Michael?
The point I was making about “English” and its “Anglo-Saxon” heritage; Angles and Saxons both invaded “Britain”, following the period of Roman de-colonization in the 5th Century. The Romans had previously displaced the Celts, remembered most notably when Boadicea, being one Queen of some Celtic tribes, fought against Roman occupation (without success).

(http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/Invaders.htm)

English is a melting pot of language. It has evolved and been adopted, rightly or wrongly, by a significant part of the world through a:colonization and b:trade . That Australia is “English Speaking” is a result of colonization. That 99% of the population of Australia speak English is a fact.

RE “neo-racist approach in this English semi-colony to non-Anglo-Saxons/non-Anglo-Celts happened being trapped in Australia,”

Reading between the lack of English grammar and punctuation;

Maintenance of a single common language is not a side effect of any “neo-racist” policy, it is a concequence of expediency and accident of the migration trends which have shaped Australia.

As a policy, a single common language is a much better thing than the sort of mess which Canada has got itself in, with “English” predominant in most places and French being the “official” language in Quebec.

As for “Microsoft World creators and technical support services, of whom Grammar and Spell Checking has been used and appreciated worldwide”

Well I suggest, in future, you use the version which covers “English Grammar and punctuation”, because, whatever pidgeon version you are using, it has no relation to the “Oxford” version, concise or otherwise.

Regarding “Even among traditionally imported British monarchs Queen Victoria is remembered in history AND for her poor command English, which does not devaluate her reign as the most substantial upon English royal millennium.”

I would suggest, you should “get some rungs up the ladder” before you start suggesting anyone else lacks a command of the English language.

Eventually, URL provided
http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/Invaders.htm

is, as understood for "non-Pom-expert", of importance only for local native –English speaking rednecks endlessly deliberating and abusing each other and outsiders definitely for using a worldwide accustomed term “Anglo-Saxons” rather than “Anglo-Celts”.

An Anglo-colonial illiteracy and stupid arrogance of British subjects Kosovo-shaped already terrorist and murderer Hicks is the perfect example of, once again appeared in your message with mentioning of “English” English in WinW spell-checking: my computer has been equipped with Australian variant as well alongside with UK, American, pidgin-English and some others.
I value my time to further pay attention to your remarks could have been preached somewhere in the London Underground at the time appropriate.

Michael K - ? ? ? ?

The word "whatever" springs to mind.

Col,

In 2001 the five most commonly spoken languages other than English were Italian, Greek, Cantonese, Arabic (including Lebanese) and Vietnamese, with speakers of these languages together comprising 7% of the total population.

Your own command of the English language is commendable - especially for a salesman!

But hang on, you only know and speak one language? Why is that?

Rainier “But hang on, you only know and speak one language? Why is that?”

Because I have no need to speak another (better to be proficient at one thing than mediocre in many).

If I did, I would doubtless, gain proficiency in that other.

It is called “doing what one needs to do and not doing what one does not need to do”,

Fundamentally it comes down to simple time management.

Alternatively, some folk, with more time than things to fill it, busy themselves in acquiring redundant skills like languages they never need to use or follow the pursuit archaic crafts for their own amusement (and good luck to them) etc.

That 5 diverse subgroups comprise merely 7% of the Australian population proves my point.
They would be more liberated and less susceptible to exploitation by gaining a proficiency in English than limiting themselves to the confines of their ethnic ghettos, by building a wall from a deficiency in English.

So how many languages do you speak Rainier?

Col, there is no such English word as "pidgeon". I think you mean "pidgin", or perhaps "pigeon". With respect to your comments about others' proficiency in English, we have an old saying in this country that states that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Bravissimo!

“They [non-Anglos] would be more liberated and less susceptible to exploitation by gaining a proficiency in English than limiting themselves to the confines of their ethnic ghettos, by building a wall from a deficiency in English” – a typically redneck’s vision of own Anglo-racist activities in any place of a world, where a salesman not understanding stuff he sales mentors those who create products him to benefit from someone's resource and creating goods in at least ten times more than producers and innovators themselves.

“Thank you, maaaaaate” , comes on mind.

MichealK... I'm very interested to know of your first language mate ? please share.

Overall, I think the TOPIC has kinda been neglected here.

A tough citizenship test, should be backed up with profuse information which is 'CULTURE SPECIFIC'. i.e. provided in various forms to best suit prospective migrants, where it highlights primarily those issues which might be a problem for them.

Once this information is clearly spelt out, the citizenship test is simply a matter of course.

The issues of great importance which MUST be tackled prior to any migrant being offered a visa are 'LOYALTY'.

This applies most to Muslims. "Would you kill in the defense of Australia, a fellow Muslim who is invading" ? and this would have to be sworn on the Quran, and recorded thus. I seriously doubt that any Muslim could swear on the Quran on that issue.. specially if they know it is recorded.
Still.. that IS the level of loyalty required of every migrant.
I would not insist on this for those of nominally Christian cultural background, because we all know how during 2 world wars we butchered each other, stopping only for Chrissy dinner in WW1.

Muslims are under Islamic law as follows:

"The grounds on which a Muslim can be killed- deserting his faith" So this cannot apply to an invading Muslim, because the Muslim mindset sees that as 'liberation' and the establishment of Allahs theocracy/Caliphate on earth.

This alone should disqualify all Muslim migrants.

Boaz: "This alone should disqualify all Muslim migrants."

How uncharacteristically honest. Unlike the dog-whistling government (and opposition), at least Boaz reveals that his motivation is to prevent the immigration of Muslims, specifically.

As for the rest of his most recent post above, what utter nonsense! So Muslims don't kill each other on sectarian, nationalistic and other grounds?

Tell that to the Kurds, Palestinians, Shi'ites, Acehnese etc etc who are dying daily at the hands of other Muslims.

I await your next fanciful rationalisation of your bigotry.

CJMorgan “Col, there is no such English word as "pidgeon".”

Really, try http://www.oaklandzoo.org/atoz/azspeckpidgeon.html

“we have an old saying in this country that states that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.”

I would suggest you remember that in future.

“Pidgeon” is a reasonably common variant of “pigeon” .

I could even name “Walter Pidgeon” as a movie actor who, according to you had no such name.

So, working from the “Walter”, who is the “Wally” now, CJ?

Alternatively I could suggest another common saying “Don’t sweat the small”

Although, considering the limited wit you present here, what is “small” for most of us, likely present you with a sizable challenge.

As for your outburst “I await your next fanciful rationalisation of your bigotry.”

David was asking a question regarding the topic of “LOYALTY”.

I, for one, would concur with David_BOAZ view; that any person be they Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or Aztec Sun worshipper, who lives here, as a citizen / permanent resident and does not pledge their support first to the nation of Australia, above and before any religion or other nationality, should do themselves a favour by finding somewhere else to abide, than live a life of dishonour and deceit from pretending faux allegiance.

Terms like “Quisling” (something else for you to look up) spring to mind to describe such low lifes

Col, I think you meant pidgin as in "pidgin English"

But then you beat me to this correction by reference to the feather

variety with your link, lol :)

To answer you question 2 plus some Kreoles.

"The limits of my languages mean the limits of my world”

Col: "“Pidgeon” is a reasonably common variant of “pigeon”"

Undoubtedly - at least among people who can't spell. You were referring to pidgin English weren't you, rather than the late actor? And it was you who was putting down another commentator concerning his lack of knowledge of the English language, wasn't it?

I've noticed you tend to prevaricate when caught out in this forum - as in the thread where you made your 'Swedish genes' gaffe, then subsequently betrayed your lack of both mathematical and biological comprehension. I suggest you purchase both a dictionary and some undergraduate texts in statistics and biology.

Col: "David was asking a question regarding the topic of “LOYALTY”."

Nonsense - he wasn't asking any kind of question. He proposed an idiotic question to do with prospective immigrants being prepared to kill hypothetical invading Muslims, which he said wouldn't apply to Christians since they are happy to kill each other and Muslims presumably aren't (according to his expert interpretation of Islamic doctrine).

I merely pointed out that this is nonsense, given that Muslims are frequently engaged in killing each other all over the world.

However, I'm not all that surprised that you and Boaz are intellectual bedfellows, given your shared predilection for posting arrant, hateful rubbish in this forum.

CJ Morgan, Regardless of my incidental misspelling of “pidgin”,

you made a absolute statement “Col, there is no such English word as "pidgeon".”

Clearly your “absolute” statement stands corrected, if I can instantly go and produce two separate references to “Pidgeon” (2 from among 1.6 million).

Before bothering to prevaricate about my need for a dictionary, you should first look to your own shortcomings and be guided by your own favoured quotation

“people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.”

I would further observe, you continue to “sweat the small”.

MichaelK until you find someone to translate your deranged verbiage into English, my previous comment stands . .

“whatever”

No further comment is appropriate when I (for one among many), whilst recognising the individual combinations of letters and the words they form, is at a completely lost as to there syntax.

C.J. -my next fanciful rationalisation.

You are quite right, Muslims are indeed killing each other. But this is only from 'our' perspective. From theirs they are not killing "Muslims" most Sunni's don't seem to regard Shia as "Muslims" and quite possibly Kurds but I cannot speak with great confidence on that particular point.

This morning on ABC I heard about Fatah and Hamas... when referring to a Fatah planning meeting, the reporter said "You could barely breath their was so much smoke from chainsmoking fatah functionaries"

Now that alone should be enough to signify that they are not obedient Muslims, and are more likely Socialists/Communist in their outlook, which means Hamas are not killing "Muslims" in their view.

Finally, when a Muslim is asked if he will defend or even kill an invading Muslim, he will interpret this in terms of his own group.

Also, you must try to differentiate between advocating a sensible social/immigration policy and racial/religious bigotry. I know this will be hard for you, as you seem to be a bit blinkered in this area, you would probably even call a multi racial demo 'One Nation One Race' as 'white supremacist' even though most of the people under such a banner are of various ethnicities.

C.J. I wonder, have you seen the degree of hate present in some of the Youtube compilations of Islamists ? I'll concede you one point, I saw the same 'look' in the face of one of the white cronulla rioters beating up a Leb. Its primal and damn scary. While in the case of white Aussies, it takes quite a bit to unleash this kind of thing, Islam by nature tends to bring it out on a much more widely because it connects with the faith of Muslims.

When that primal Islamic fervor is unleashed, they won't be asking to some young girl "Are you C.J.Morgan's daughter" they will just look at the skin color.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4rMJVHyeg
Yes, the compilor has added comments, but the signs and yelling are still from the Muslims and this mentality resides in Brunswick as much as London.

Regarding Muslims.
Fatwa
...the rule for applying and accepting citizenship of those countries is, much restricted. A Muslim is not permitted to apply for citizenship of non-Muslim countries except in dire need, such as not being able to practice his religion in his own country or fear of oppression or being in danger for his life or he threat of mprisonment or torture in his homeland and there is no Islamic country where he can live. In such circumstances one can apply for citizenship of a non-Muslim country. If it is obliged to take an oath for getting citizenship, at that moment one should try to allude to the words of oath as much as possible to escape their intended point. If he is able to live harmlessly in the non-Muslim country without taking the citizenship then applying for citizenship is not permissible for him. It is forbidden for him to apply for citizenship of a non-Muslim country if he is simply aspiring to material comforts or financial gain. Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {And never will Allâh grant to the disbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.}[4: 141]. No doubt, the believer who accepts the nationality of a non-Muslim country gives non-believers an advantage over him to force him to follow their rules and regulations.
Has any other persons entered Australia as immigrants with this advantage of duplicity not only from their religion but also from their government that will always supersede Australian law and society? Immigration indeed!

I remain in awe of Boazy's deep knowledge and understanding of Islam. As an agnostic, I could never have known that when Fatah are killing Hamas (and vice versa) they are not - at least according to our Q'uranic scholar - killing Muslims.

Boazy: "C.J. I wonder, have you seen the degree of hate present in some of the Youtube compilations of Islamists ?"

Not really. I'm exposed to quite enough religious bigotry in this forum, thanks. Granted, I'm sure there are plenty of Muslim nutters out there too - but why would I bother to engage with them? The only reason I respond to some people here is to provide a sane and compassionate counter, in a relatively civilised forum, to their often quite rabid ideas and pronouncements.

Boazy: "...you would probably even call a multi racial demo 'One Nation One Race' as 'white supremacist' even though most of the people under such a banner are of various ethnicities."

No, not quite white supremacist - just dumb and deluded. But I bet that if you manage to garner support from some benighted sector of the community, it will include the neo-nazis, skinheads and other hateful ratbags like those who turned out at Cronulla, for example. Are you happy to attract and foster these kinds of idiots to your cause?

In another historical context, it was held that if you walked like a duck, talked like a duck, and kept the company of ducks, then for all intents and purposes you were a duck.

While I was never a great fan of those who espoused that logic at the time, it does hold a commonsense appeal. In my opinion, "BOAZ_David" can be regarded as a contemporary 'duck'.

Birds of a feather, and all that... :)

I think the duck just got plucked and Col's pidgin flew home

C.J. have a read of the first chapter of Hosea :) Now..if I'm a duck and a whacko.. what does that make him ?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=35&chapter=1&version=31
Just verse 2....

You really should check out those links on youtube I provided, it might open your mind to why I percieve things so passionately.
Now go on.... live dangerously.. go back and have a peek....please ?

Here is a 2006 fatwa on my favorite target verse in the Quran...

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=20085&ln=eng

Question:
At the present time, is it Halal to have a sexual intercourse with your Loundi (a female prisoner of war) without getting married to her?.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible for a man to have intercourse with anyone except his wife or his female slave (concubine). A wife becomes permissible after shar’i marriage and a concubine becomes permissible to the man who owns her. She may originally be a prisoner of war, and a Muslim may obtain a concubine from the ruler or commander if he took part in fighting in jihad, or if he buys her from her owner. She becomes permissible for him by virtue of his ownership after it is established that she is not pregnant by waiting for one menstrual cycle, or until she has given birth if she is pregnant.

Pericles would have a fit if he knew of this group in UK calling themselves "friends of Mosely". They are a right wing group apparently. Not my style, but Pericles refuses to see that.

Back to a topic, they-Muslims-are the more welcome the less they speak English.

And, following P.Hanson’s suspicions, blacks of South Africa are not really in place in Australia as they already speak English well and are educated much better than their white newly acquired bossy Aussie-“mates” eventually.

Yes, i had to giggle when i heard hanson chastising others for not being able to speak english...please explain?

Col: "Clearly your “absolute” statement stands corrected, if I can instantly go and produce two separate references to “Pidgeon” (2 from among 1.6 million)."

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Australian English, rather than American. The purported topic is Australian citizenship, is it not - rather than American? Do you propose that we abandon the way we spell words in Australian English? Should we just roll over and administer our new White Australia Policy in American?

Col: "...the individual combinations of letters and the words they form, is at a completely lost as to there syntax."

I guess it would be unkind to refer the above as "deranged verbiage", so I won't :)

Boazy, I don't need to go to YouTube to know that there are religious buffoons out there of all persuasions. However, I would dearly love to get hold of some of whatever it is that you're smoking :)

I think we should be grateful for a free speech mostly exercising in this forum.

To make real Australia much more attractive, moderators of “ethnics” forums that is in different from English languages, usually ban mercilessly participants a n d by disconnecting their IP, providing even a shadow of information about Hanson and reality of xenophobia, racism and mere protectionist “mateship” underlying and ruling this entry-semi-issuing branch of England.

Moreover, some proficiency in a number of languages at least on English-user level allowed me to conclude that there were a particular cohort in any forum who use rudeness and simple swearing with no punishment supposed following.

Maybe, C.J. Morgan is short of these practical acquisitions while trying to delight non-delightABLE .

Islamanoia infects yet another thread. I will be forwarding details of my defintion, sign and symptomsof Islamonoia to the authors of the International Classification of Disease Index.

But that is not why I am here.

Merry Christmas to everybody - I hope you enjoy it in a manner thats suits your faith and inclination -

Sneekeepete signing off for the festive season!

What are you doing migrating to Australia if you don't agree with it's government or culture? Why have you chosen to live in Australia but can't bring yourself to defend Australia? Why did you migrate to Australia only to refuse to integrate? What are you doing in Australia that you find citizenship so threatening?
Why shouldn't Australia seek out the best of those willing to become citizens and able to contribute to a better Australian society?
As much as Australia can not export her own homegrown trouble makers, there is no reason to accept the importation of trouble in the name of PC altruism.
Australia is constantly filtering her society. The jails attest to this social filtering. Why is it unfair to apply this same filtering prior to social acceptance?

Why, aqvarivs?

Because a "social acceptance" is a term invented by Anglo-racist colonizators luring educated skilled people from round a globe into nothing-for-non-Angloses-to-achieve Australia - the brightest example of such a lure, knowing in advance a very goal of bringing more slaves to their Anglo-England-crown, which is mere increase of a number of slaves to passively produce more jobs for Anglo-"arian" managers.

And those who refer to newcomers as only group feeling hatred towards Anglo-xenophobic Britaine-not-call-today-empire-in-general is utterly WRONG: in generations non-Angloses just hate and hate much more this still historically oversurvived cancerous tumour importing own pollution round the globe while mentoring "underhuman" nations on environment and justice, and I am personally hardly surprised recently for hatred demonstrated on the streets by locally born even in a second generation non-Anglo youths declaring that Australia is not their country because they being intentionally denied by both Anglo-peers and an education system of belonging to the land "socially".

Welcome to a real world of monarcho-Anglo-racism!

MichaelK
I just want to say up front that my last post was rhetorical in nature. I think that regardless of national origin or country they are equally valid questions. Even for an Australian wishing to emigrate to Zimbabwe. Kind of like an all inclusive A to Z thing. However since you have chosen to post an answer I have given much attention to your post. And I can not reconcile the language of your post with mine. I get dizzy. Your post is like a Rorschach test. I don't have the skill necessary to define it's meaning. Is there anyway you could repost so that I could get a clear picture of the intent of your message. My apologies.
I'm just an everyday kinda man.

MichaelK “nothing-for-non-Angloses-to-achieve Australia”

“slaves to their Anglo-England-crown”
“Anglo-xenophobic Britaine-not-call-today-empire-in-general”
“monarcho-Anglo-racism!”

Oh the pitiful ranting of the bigot.

As aqvarivs asked “are you doing migrating to Australia if you don't agree with it's government or culture”

You replied with the above.

And aqvarivs concludes “Your post is like a Rorschach test”

I am a little more direct.

I have held back, not knowing whether your castration of English Grammar was due to it being a second language or if there was a more insidious and perverse agenda.
I do not believe anyone using English, even as a second language, could have contrived to acquire so many of the words and none of the syntax.

I think you are either so pig ignorant that passing an English test for citizenship would see you fail repeatedly or you are a provocateur, deliberately corrupting English to allow you to abuse it, to satisfy your own perversions.

From reading your deranged and meaningless diatribe it is clear that you are a racist.

I suggest you go back to whatever stagnant pond of non-anglo-saxon mediocrity it is in which you were spawned and stop polluting Australia with your worthless garbage.
The vast majority of Australians are not going to turn their back on their own history and heritage simply to pacify your demented (as defined by your absence of grammar) ranting (as defined by content).

I find myself in total agreement with Col. Very rare.

Must be the season, Merry Christmas to all

Col,goodonya old fella, and that's it for me for 2006, seasons greeting to all. May we all enter the new year with the same gusto as we left the old one behind.

You are right, aqarivs:
You "get dizzy", to you a "post is like a Rorschach test", you "don't have the skill necessary to define it's meaning".

That is what exact problem with racist -probably, I would better not to use the most appropriate world in order this message to appear here- redneck majority, of whose even a though one could be intelligent outside their England-schooling is a heresy and out of English-proficiency, which is checking the appropriate to Anglo-Arians, suggested for lower beings from English-as-second-language-background tests at local so-called "Job Network" branches.

And your nickname itself is a perfect testimony to a perverted tongue, which is, of course, a deed allowed to Her Majesty Native Anglo-Speakers only.

By for now. I must jet off to a next international assignment somewhere in the States, I wish.

And more on Anglo-racism:

"The Rorschach Test

After repeated letters from dozens of outraged psychologists and psychiatrists claiming that this page "violates the copyright on the Rorschach Test", we feel compelled to post this notice:

The information presented here, including the outlines of the Rorschach inkblots, is not in violation of copyright law. Please don't waste your time writing us to complain or threatening to "turn us in to the publisher".

__________

Disclaimer Of Use
Reading the information provided here could compromise the administration of the Rorschach test, invalidating your answers. If you don't wish to take the Rorschach test (and we suggest NOT taking it in the context of a custody dispute if at all possible), tell the psychologist that you are familiar with the Rorschach test, have read about the test and have seen the inkblots. Any ethical psychologist will decline to administer the test upon learning this, and the issue of the test's validity will be a moot point.

Please note that the sample responses shown below are not necessarily "good" responses to the Rorschach. [] What we advise is that you DO NOT take a Rorschach test for any reason.

...

_________________________________________________

Most people have heard of the Rorschach test (pronounced "ror-shock"), but few have ever seen a real Rorschach inkblot. The blots are kept secret. []
Psychologists want the blots to remain a secret from the general public []. Whether they do remains controversial. Many psychologists think the Rorschach test is hopelessly unreliable; others see it as one of the cardinal tools of modern psychodiagnosis. Even among those who acknowledge the value of the test, there is disagreement on interpretation of responses.

Just as secret as the blots themselves are the ground rules for administering the test. [] If you ask if it is okay to turn the card upside down, the psychologist will respond that you may do as you like; it's up to you. []

Full text:
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rorschach.php

MichaelK

Aquarius - the constellation
Aquarius - the astrological sign
Aquarius - the age of Aquarius
Aquarius - the genus Aquarius of water striders
Aquarius - (LM-7)Lunar excursion module of Apollo 13 mission
Aquarius - the NASA satellite as part of the EOS programme
Aquarius - the underwater laboratory off the Florida Keys
Aquarius - a launch vehicle designed to be launched in the ocean

Aquarius is also the name of a sports drink, a game, a brand of home computer,the name of a music record, a music store, and a music recording studio. And much more I'm sure.

In order to distinguish myself from all that clutter I chose to use the old stonemasons V in place of the English vowel U. I hope that answers your question.

As to the rest of your post I can only say What?
You really must calm down and try to put together better sentence structure. All I can decipher is the word racism and that you think the English language is racist? And jetting off to the States wont get you away from your having to speak English. Obviously your a terrible victim of your society and that society has not given redress to your demands for blanket acceptance. For all the people responsible for your hatred I would like to offer my sympathy and apology. Perhaps in the new year your language will become the language used in world communication. A hundred years or so ago it was French. Who knows you might get lucky.

Thank you for delighting the Forum on AQUARIUS meanings:

"Aquarius is also the name of a sports drink, a game, a brand of home computer,the name of a music record, a music store, and a music recording studio. And much more I'm sure."

"In order to distinguish myself from all that clutter I chose to use the old stonemasons V in place of the English vowel U. I hope that answers your question" - m y question?

"As to the rest of your post I can only say What?" - you, aqvqrivs, really must calm down and try to put together all your brain power if any very developed in England or somewhere of her colonies round a globe, where even a slight possibility to use intellectual natural human abilities had been inherited by a mob of the privileged as a sure appendix to their feudal crowns.

All I can decipher is your absolute unacceptability of information provided with distinguished language skills used to stimulating some brain motion of "stonemasons V" forum participants.

Enjoy-if you were able to understand elementary things outside your colonial boy's damned vicious circle of inherited prejudgements. Of these elementary things clear notion was already highlighted. As well as a notion of playing the Australian citizenship rules-their very political and surely biological historically-linked relatives in Africa for instance ended up with UK passports as known.

MichaelK

Way to hate dude! Your constant accusation of bigotry and racism is very defining. If I was to come across an animal as crippled as you are I would kill it out of hand. Nothing should have to bear that much suffering. I can not imagine how much it must suck to be you. If I was you, I think I would scrounge a plank or a piece of board and go down to the sea shore and push off in the hopes that my eternal suffering would come to an end or that I may bump into a deserted Ilse where I could rule as supreme overlord.

Well, you've got what you deserve and your explicit hatred is a pattern has usually subtly been hidden with smiles and speechifying of "English skills" possibly improvable upon at least five generations of under-caste non-English-natives if they managed populating all the way in a zoo of Anglo-xenophobic Australia.

However, a worldwide use of English is to a great extent grounded with primitive simplicity of this gray language intact upon centuries.

Let you leave your advice to higher race Arians having been kicked out from English colonies worldwide already rather than to me-I am among Australians who would not be granted by a range of expertly playing English British courts a UK passport while being in Guantanamo isolated by enduring the freedom, no right of abode for residing in metropoly or elsewhere.

However, me and Guantanamo are rather supportive elements of a democratic system your English-obsessed mates pretend only being very friends.

Let you stick to and follow up your advice yourself, which could be more practically reasonable, perhaps.

Hi All im new here. Glad to hear all your views. Ive decided to respond to this post as i was having a chat to my greek neighbour the other day...about Australian ciitzenship..he told me that it didn't matter for him...and asked me do u need Australian citizenship to get a pension?...No no my friend, its not necessary..will citizenship stop all the muslim terrorists? no no my friend....will citizenship help my tomatoes grow..no no..my friend...he also said he would be proud to be a greek citizen but not an australian one....i excused myself then..i was afraid if i stayed, i might offend him..as i was told greeks are easily offended.

I wasn't sure if he was just joking or not... but i sure was disgusted with his comments..hope there aren't more people like him hey?

Regrettably, not your old out-of-Greece neighbour thinks by such a way only, but his born locally kids and grand-grandkids either - and not from Greek background only: "It is not your land" that is what non-Anglos hear wherever at schools, shops, public transport, etc. from very fist moments communicating with English-natives, perhaps, self-overestimating own biological ancestry.

And British subjects having no passports issued to at all in generations think they still live in a “Terra nullious” grateful for their Union Jeck’s appearance around.

I would give no toss to this situation if not discrimination practically legalised by recent neo-racist government at all walks of life in Australia gradually placed somewhere behind Singapore and even South Korea with Taiwan on all standards, while telling of "globalization" and "foreign investment"-simply ballooning foreign debt as a very colonial way of keeping foreign crown intact locally