VK3AUU
I think someone should be going as far as they can in their education before they get a trade. I also know of companies that will not take on an apprentice unless they have completed grade 12, as they have found it too difficult to train someone who has only completed grade 10.

However student marks are gradually declining even in primary school also, according to benchmark tests.

I have found what boys need most (and also many girls) is a structured system. If the system is not structured well enough then they are not interested. They need the induction systems and a structured teaching and training program. They need to see older people who have been through that structured system, and then they use those people as a role model.

If there is little structure in the school systems, and a loss of role models as well, then the chaplains may give some boys a role model.

VK3AUU,

I believe there is not a great deal of difference between vocational and academic content and intellectual rigor.

I say this coming come from a trade / technical background into an academic workforce.

My arguments thus far have merely pointed out that teaching and

learning (wherever it occurs) should be considered inside a much

more theoretical and adventurous paradigm than what is being offered up by the

didactic fordist HRS.

Electrians who know all about Proust, Chomsky and Ralston- Saul ? YES!

Professors of literature who know how to change a light bulb and mow their own lawns?

Education should not be limited to those who can pay for it – nor should it be regulated and controlled through quality control mechanisms that come from a factory mentality.

Rainier,
It is interesting that all the authors you have mentioned are male,which makes it even more worrying that males are gradually dropping out of education systems.

You seem to be holding those male authors in high regard, but are opposing chaplains from coming into the education system, which would help to turn the tide of males leaving the now decaying education system.

HRS says that chaplains coming into the education system "would help to turn the tide of males leaving the now decaying education system". Evidence? Not a skerrick. Supporting argument? Zilch. Just blind faith. (I'll leave the unsupported assumption about decay to the dentist.)

Here's a contrary proposition (equally with no evidence or supporting argument): High profile professional footballers or cricketers going into the system would do more than an army of god-squadders to retain male students. And keep them healthier!

HRS,

Besides teaching, I helped establish an independent school years ago and I'm still on its governing committee.

You may rightly ask - why is this relevant?

Well I periodically search for teachers to employ and from my experience the gender of teachers means very little.

Good teachers are just that -good teachers -no matter what gender. Yes male teachers can and do perform important role modelling for male and female students, but I think this modelling can also be performed by anyone. Our school janitors and gardeners (big burley blokes) do this job very well.

As for chaplains (i prefer to call them a school elders) they should in my view attempt to support (but not necessarily decide) the moral and ethical culture of the school.

HRS, in any school day you must deal with a range of issues that are not just confined to teaching and learning as such.

Emotional, psychological, medical, spiritual, humorous, tragedy, self esteem, racial, cultural, linguistic, are just a few of the thousands of ways you can describe a school class, day, year or semester.

I’m sure you could apply these descriptors to your factory as well, but first you have to admit they exist.

Oooook... a voice from the wilderness here....

this has degenerated into a 'my teaching methods are better than yours' exercise.. I thought the topic was about a lost moral compass !

Doesn't anyone have anything to say about that ?

Is it the absense of any moral foundation that causes some to wax ever so eloquent about ways of teaching ?

Ranier old son... you have been quoting scripture to me, and I absolutely love it. Why not use some here in connection with moral compass instead of making me the bible basher all the time ?

You know as well as I do that there is plenty in it to provide a great foundation for society, and why don't we take the initiative and run with what is good, rather than just point the verbal bone at Bozo and the 'Church' ? :)

Laurie.. hope all is well with you.. haven't said boo 2 u 4 a while.