HRS, I don't think I'm going to move you towards thinking about schools and teaching and learning and you're not going to move me into the world of work in a factory.

Showing an induction video? Please!

I wish it was all as simple as you think it is - i really do - but its not

HRS,

There are many factors in student learning. Parent attitudes play a big role in students' attitudes to learning. Good teaching is another factor. But students are not products. They have will, and they will decide whether or not they will co-operate. In industry, trainers are dealing with adults who want to be learning or who have made a decision that it is necessary to learn. That is different from children, who do not have the choice of whether to be at school or not.

Forcing students to watch a video of another student doing homework would be impractical and ineffective. It is a lack of motivation which prevents students doing homework, not a lack of knowledge of how to do it.

Teachers are not responsible for parents.

The idea of charging teachers if students fail is a new one. That would clear everybody out of teaching. Teachers have responsibility but they do not have power.

There is nothing new about chaplains in schools. They have been in Victorian schools for over 50 years, and they do not undertake the roles that you suggest for them.

If society wants to improve learning, it would increase education spending. There are private schools which charge around $20,000 in fees. My government school gets just over $7,000 per student. Just imagine what programs we could run, how much individual attention we could give and what highly able people would we attract to teaching with another $13,000!

Society would also re-structure schools on a vertical modular grouping basis so that students would not progress to a higher level in any subject until they had mastered the previous level.

The point of my first post was to show that the picture of PC schools with no commitment to standards is false, and I stand by that. This thread is the first time I have seen Kevin Donnelly make any concessions on the claims he has made on education over the past 15 years.

Sir Vivor,
Left to their own devices, here is an example of what the education system does with money.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Censored-the-boys-own-manual/2005/05/02/1114886318639.html

Rainier,
I’m sure few companies would employ you. You seem to have elitist attitudes which would not make you a good team player, and you have minimal regard for inductions. Companies are basically required to carry out inductions under risk management legislation, so few companies would employ you.

Chris C,
Properly run inductions make a supervisors job much easier, and properly run inductions in schools would make a teachers job much easier also.

Induction systems can be used to motivate, and induction system can also be used as a part of counselling. Verbal counselling is not often effective. How many times have you carried out verbal counselling of a student but the student has not paid any attention? If someone needs counselling as a part of behaviour modification, then running them through the induction process again is extremely effective I can assure you.

Some schools have a policy of giving the student minimal homework, but if you are concerned about homework, then engage the students and treat it as a project. Get the students to make a video. Have students play the part of actors doing their homework in different ways. Then show the video and have a class discussion on what would be the best study method they could use. Write out what the class has agreed on, and then give a copy to each member of the class.

In 2 weeks, ask the students if they thought that the study method they had agreed on was now getting them better homework marks. If not, start the process again and update the study method.

In the good companies they do not regard their employees as “products”. A supervisor in a good company has two families. Their family at home, and their family at work. To a good supervisor, the safety of their crew is always their highest priority, but I have rarely heard a teacher even mention student safety. That indicates very poor management practices occurring in schools.

Why would you hear teachers referring to safety? It is so integral to what they do that it dosn't need to be trumpted about. Schools aim to care for their students, and saftey is part of that - playgrounds designed with sufficent softfall, classrooms designed with age-appropriate furniture, the provision of first aid training and facilities... It dosn't need to be 'spoken about', it just IS.

HRS, Teaching is teamwork built around knowledge managment and achievement.

As for induction, its much more than looking at a video.

Why the anger? You asked me my opinion about teaching? I provided it.

I'm sorry its not what you think it is.

You can't blame me for the knowledge and experience you don't have.

I worked as a Laborer for many years before going back to uni and hitting the books.

If self improvement elitist?

How many other companies (beside the one you work in) would employ you simply because you think an an induction video is all that is required to familarise workers in a factory?

You've got a pretty narrow perspective on a complex range of issues.

Laurie,
I have read many school newsletters and school reports, been to many P&C meetings, and talked to quite a few schoolteachers. On only a few occasions have I ever heard schoolteachers talk about safety, and on only a rare occasion have I ever heard a schoolteacher talk about risk.

This means that the education system does not have risk management as a priority. The education system does not properly identify risks, and the education system does not put in place enough processes to overcome risks.

The schoolteachers are now good at excuse making instead of problem solving. They have become good at blaming the parents, blaming the students, blaming the government or blaming everything or everyone but their own archaic and incestuous teaching practices. Good at asking for more of the taxpayer’s money, not so good at improving student results. Good at suggesting that they are the only ones who know how to teach, not so good at looking at the teaching and training practices that occur outside of schools, and these teaching practices are often much more advanced than what is occurring in schools.

Rainier,
The induction process can involve many things. Written material, verbal talks, group discussions, videos, demonstrations, practical exercises and some companies now give the employees a little exam at the end.

Also the induction process is normally the start of the ongoing training that occurs in a company. If you don’t like inductions, you will not get a job.

I have undertaken many courses, but the last course I did through a University, I regard it as the most expensive but also the most badly managed and most badly run course I have ever undertaken.

I did the course through correspondence, and after the first year I stopped trying to contact the lecturers. They were normally not available, and no lecturer ever tried to contact me either. So for the next 3 years I did the course with no assistance from any lecturer.

So much for the teaching practices of Universities, and it is not ironic that those Universities also train schoolteachers.