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The Forum > Article Comments > The troublesome mix: religion and politics > Comments

The troublesome mix: religion and politics : Comments

By Noel Preston, published 22/11/2006

Can the common good prevail over self-interest and the desire for personal gain?

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The Author said:

<At the same time there is evidence of a systematic agenda among conservative Christians to emulate their American counterparts by imposing their views on the body politic>

This requires some examination.

1/ This is a democracy.
2/ For every issue where it is claimed 'Christians want to 'impose' their will, it can equally be said that they are in reality, democratically opposing the IMPOSITION of secular or other ideas on them.

Who are the 'American Counterparts' ? The religious spectrum in the USA is quite broad and mixed. I would prefer the author used at least one specific example to illustrate his point.

One classic sentence is this:

"Australia is NOW a multi faith (or no faith) society"

Is that so ? why is it 'NOW'? .....what occurred between 'then' and 'now' to make it so ? Is this not evidence that changes brought in due to Al Grasby and his gang of culture thieves, of his slanderous and culturally genocidal...

"It would mean there was a secret master race that considered themselves pure Australians...It would be worse than the Third Reich."
(Al Grasby)

..were aimed at destruction of Australian identity ?

In my opinion YES. I wonder if anyone was PAYING Mr Grasby to say things like this ? or in who's interests such statements were made ? "Follow the money"

But if it was reasonable at one time to say "Australia is basically a Christian country" then it is reasonable to challenge the idea that now "Australia is now a multi faith country" or.. at least to challenge those forces (like Grasby) who tried to change it.

Personally, with todays headline of the assassination of Maronite Christian leader Pierre Gemayel, I have no desire whatsoever to live in a 'Multi faith' country if that is the result. (Remember John Newman, Donald Mckay, the mad mufti) I'm sure Mrs Mckay is 'happy' about Mr Grasbys spin on things.

CONCLUSION. It is just as valid to work towards a 'monocultural' Australia as it was to make it 'multi'cultural.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 9:06:22 AM
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Poor David, Trying to turn the clock back to some imagined state of purity.
The fact of the matter is that we live in a muliticultural world and there is nothing whatsoever anyone can do about it.
There have of course been various historical attempts to produce a mono-cultural society. The genocide against the native-americans in the USA, the many anti Jewish pogroms in christian Europe, the "religious" wars of post reformation Europe, "christian" South Africa via Apartheid, fascist Germany (get rid of ALL the deviants),all communist countries to one degree or another, Pol Pot in Cambodia, the Ruwanda genocide, the white Australia policy, the Klu Klux Klan in America etc etc etc. There are also many right wing groups throughout the world trying to "re-establish" their monocultural "paradise". The aryan nation white supremacists movement in the USA being a notable example.
I would suggest that David fits very squarely within this ignoble "cleansing" paradigm.
Multiculturalism is also the inevitable result of globalization which again is a process that cant be stopped.In some sense you could say that globalisation began when Constantine become a christian which then set in train a process whereby christianity became an integral part of the drive to total power and control at the root of the entire western "cultural" project.
In effect then we have no choice but to do the necessary work of understanding our own cultural and religious provincialism. And of course the dreaded "other".
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 9:40:30 AM
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Politics will always have overtones and undertones of religion behind it. Sometimes overt. Sometimes subtle.

Many thousands of Australians have developed a secular morality, based on what we deemto be best for society, what is fair to all, what tends to develop social cohesion and stability.

Many thousands of others use their preferred faith, and this is valid but tends to be abrasively exclusive of the diversity of other faiths. Tends to, though some religious adherents do have a much more mature outlook on the diversity of opinion that is needed to drive society's ethics.

Whether we develop our notions of morality and ethics from religious iedeology or from secular reasoning, all people will want to influence the body politic. In that sense, it is not possible to separate church from religion. As a boy in school in the late 60s I remember well when a Catholic DLP senator came to my high school arguing the case for war in Vietnam.

We should not question the right of religious groups to exert persuasion on politics, but we do now have a problem in that extremist versions of Muslim and Christian faiths are having disproportionate influence.

The onus should be on moderates of all faiths to counter this alarming and dangerous trend. And on all of us to not allow politicans to take advantage of this expremist divide to their own perceived political advantage.
Posted by gecko, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 9:42:32 AM
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Ho Hum - There is one mono culture that has been highly successful. Its Japan. One of the highest GDP per capita in the world, lowest crime rate in the developed world and probably the entire world. If only Australia took a leaf or 2 out of Japans immigration book…..
Posted by EasyTimes, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:09:54 AM
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I would suggest that Japan is not a successful culture.There are enormous psychic pressures to conform. Wishing no disrespect it is very much like a huge colony of ants. A consumer driven rat race waiting to explode. Who really sets the rules & agenda? There are many dark undercurrents in the collective pysche.
There is enormous disaffection amongst young people and an incredible mindless one-dimensional consumer "culture". It is also totally dependent on the outside world for its economic survial. As is all of Europe. What will happen when hard times inevitably come!
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:42:48 AM
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There is a need for an ongoing debate on values and for values education in schools. Spirituality is a necessary part of that, but organised religion is not.

The organised religions and especially those with hierarchies of clerics have shown that ultimately the good of the church comes before the good of the 'flock' and religious beliefs are continually adjusted to ensure that is so. Islam is the same, the bigoted old Sheik recently put the 'frighteners' into his flock to ensure he still had them in check and under his control.

Religions attract bigots, some of them

Many Australians have not forgotten the Catholic controlled Democratic Labor Party and the National Civic Council. The recent actions of that Crazy Monk, Tony Abbott, in railroading the cervical cancer vaccination for girls was reminiscent of the time Rome used to pull the strings as the real power broker behind the DLP.

I suspect that the author knows full well why religions are distrusted in politics in Australia - it is because their own lack of ethics and morals detracts from their credibility. Simply put, they should put their own houses in order and that cannot be achieved through superficial renovation.
Posted by Cornflower, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:56:09 AM
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