Why is it that a woman never seems to know when she is being stirred?

Hedgepig,
Some here deliberately misconstrue your post, I am not one of them. I think your post has merit, especially in the 21st century with the media brain washing, it is a miracle that marriage still exists.

We have followed the yank example of hypocrisy to the letter, appear like a loving partner while having affairs, this is the message Hollywood sends. Take Tom Cruize and Katie Holmes for example they are supposed to belong to the religion of Sientology but she had the child before the fake marriage, doesn't that tell everyone something?

Ena

When my grandparents, on their 50th anniversary, were asked what had made their marriage strong, they replied: "give and take, you have to give and take"

(you said: "both parties have to be prepared to both give and take")

I know that my grandfather had been oppressed by my grandmother for years, to the extent that even after his death she gloated about the ways that she controlled him.

Perhaps in an unguarded moment you should ask your husband about why major decisions were made in your marriage: where to live, what sort of house to buy, when to have children and how many, where to go on holidays?. Or even what about what TV shows to watch, or whether he should be able to spend time along in his shed / study / garage?

How about what sort of food to eat? An old axiom is that for the first year of marriage a couple eat his favourite foods, for the rest of the marriage they eat hers. Has his eating habits changed to be closer to yours than his previous preferences?

I really do hope that everything has been equal in your wonderful marriage. However the length of a marriage is no justification for the couple's compatibility. I used the illustration of my grandparents - 50 years of p whipping. I have been married for 20 years, and I know who the boss is.

By the way RObert: in WW2 British women were 'conscripted' into the armed services, so were Russian women, at least in civil defence roles digging trenches and the like: And the bit about men being imprisoned for their wives debts? Perhaps it was because women needed their husband's written consent to take out a loan, in this country this was true up to around 1980.

JamesH,
Mate you don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter who does the act, what we are discussing is the survivor, not who raped them, man woman or child. The important thing to focus on is how the survivor feels, probably for the rest of their lives. I have a friend who has been sent to la la land by her grandfather raping her from the age of 6 to the age of 12.

The perpertrators of these crimes are evil, not sick with some psyciatric illness, they should be locked away for life.

I have spent many years of trying to understand, reading all sorts of books and other things which I will not discuss here.

'Men oppress women' I thought if I learnt not to do the things which allegedly oppress women I will have successful relationships. Subsequently I did not express how I felt about alot of things, did not say lots of things which I wanted to say as a result I destroyed many of my relationships.

This constant focus on negativity is very damaging for relationships between the genders. I realized this much too late. Reading Myrna Blyths 'Spin Sister' in which she writes about how womens magazines sell unhappiness. The core business of these magazines to sell unhappy and bad stories about people and relationships.

Men and women speak the same words but talk a totally different language.

A much better approach than locking the perpetrators away is to prevent the abuse from occuring in the first place.

"I know that my grandfather had been oppressed by my grandmother for years, to the extent that even after his death she gloated about the ways that she controlled him." Hamlet

Gee the oppressed controls the oppressor. A bit of double speak.

I have noticed a tendency for women to blame men for the things that women do. Toby Green wrote that women are "testers."

You either fight fair or fight dirty.

"Many women competitively respond by insisting they can look after themselves. They withhold positive feedback so as not to sell out to the enemy. If women really feel men are redundant they have to decide. Either their lives go better with a man in it or not. If they're not prepared to let a man make it with them they should be honest and get out of the game. If they decide to include men they need to validate their contribution, out loud."

Shonga, if you locked up all the men/boys who commit incest you would be putting away a sizeable proportion of the population. It is much more prevalent than anyone out there realizes and it starts from quite a young age in all sections of society.

I am not condoning it, I am not sure what you do about it. It is something like domestic violence, it gets passed on from father to son, just as alcohol abuse and unsocial attitudes. A lot of girls/women out there just accept it as part of life, particularly in isolated communities where there is no recourse to justice.