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The Forum > Article Comments > Saving daylight > Comments

Saving daylight : Comments

By Peter Stopher, published 22/11/2006

Sorting out the daylight saving and time zone schmozzle in Australia.

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I know I'm in the minority when I say this, but...."Bugger daylight savings!" I just wish the Government could sort out any time zone differences as the author suggests, then leave the clocks alone for good. It takes me months after DLS to get used to sleeping before the house has had time to cool down during summer, then just when I do, we have to put our clocks back an hour. Anyway, it's my belief that Victoria was this year brought into line with Tasmania, although I could be wrong. Maybe the idea was simply more hot air from our politicians.
Posted by Wildcat, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:21:56 AM
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The author is a bit slow in advocating that the Federal government should have the power to legislate on time zones, as it has had the power since 1901 in section 51(xv) of the Constitution, where it is given power over "Weights and Measures". Even someone such as myself, who is ferociously opposed to any increase in Federal power, and wants different laws to apply in different states (with fugitives from the law racing for the Queensland border and immunity from extradition), would agree that that clause covers time zones. The fact is that federal politicians have not been game to legislate in the area.

Advocates of daylight saving should understand that those opposed to it do so mainly for two reasons:

1. We are in the wrong latitude. Have a look at the northern hemisphere and see how many states at 33 degrees north have it. it is someting suited to latitude 45 degrees, and so Tasmania is quite suited, and the further north you go the less it is suited.

2. People are very much opposed to CHANGING time. If daylight saving is so good, for heavens sake lets have it all year. We can then get used to the time zone, WITHOUT having to change all out clocks and adjust our body rhythms.

The electors in Queensland, Northern Territory and Western Australia have spoken several times in referendums on their dislike of daylight saving. The current government in WA has acceeded to the desires of the business community and is to override the wishes of the people and impose daylight saving. The future will tell if this was a wise decision.

Suggestions that daylight saving saves electricity sould a bit hollow when you think that workers will go home in the heat of a summers day and turn on their home air conditioners, which in aggregate would consume far more power than those in the offices they have vacated.

Fortunately I am now retired, and can ignore most of the effects of the change, particularly as I now watch so little television. Others are not so lucky.
Posted by plerdsus, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 12:06:12 PM
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I must say I agree almost completely with the original article, particularly with the notion of a permanent shift in time zones to give longer afternoons all year long, as well as DST. Here in Brisbane the sun is directly overhead at about 11:35am, and as a consequence we suffer about twenty-five minutes of daylight wasting all year long!

However as was mentioned in a previous comment the argument for DST gets quite thin much north of here where there is progressively less variation in the length of the day. In fact above the Tropic of Capricorn the length of the day actually has two maxima (when the sun crosses from the northern sky into the southern sky and back) and two minima (corresponding to the solstices further south. It is very difficult to mount an argument that, say, Cairns should have DST. That is not to say that it should not be permanently shifted to give longer afternoons.

I am a bit nonplussed at the comments about disruptions to body clocks caused by the start and end of DST. As a seasoned international traveller I have found that it takes a time shift of several hours to produce any noticible jet-lag.

Let us have daylight saving, let us have it in Brisbane, and let us have it now!
Posted by Reynard, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 2:55:48 PM
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Thank you for knowing that SA is meant to be 1 hour from the east and from the west - nobody here seems to know that. If we were using that time zone, as we should be, I would be very happy to extend daylight saving for the extra month/s.
Posted by anniem, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 5:52:32 PM
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I lived in Edinburgh where I could see the benefits of daylight saving time. Although it's quite weird to see twilight after 9pm.

I also went to uni in NSW, returning to the NT over summer, making the changeover around the beginning/ end of DST and I find it did throw me off for a few days each time.

I can see the merits of shifting time zones and I would encourage all our governments to look at that option. But I don't see why a country in this part of the world should have daylight saving time at all, it really makes no sense to me. Although maybe Tasmanians may want to make a decision for themselves, given their latitude.

And I'll endorse the earlier comment re airconditioner use. As electricity generation and atmospheric emissions are increasingly important, surely this is not something to be encouraged.
Posted by Nomad, Thursday, 23 November 2006 10:54:20 AM
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It is blatantly dishonest to even use the term "daylight saving". There is no saved daylight so why use the term. The promoters have never hesitated to use the old "fade the curtains" chestnut to vilify those who dont support their view. But their own favoured terminology conveys that very same falsehood.

In the interest of accuracy I would like to introduce the term;

"Time molestation", n. subjecting time, and it's users to intentional annoyance through the compulsory manipulation of clocks. Usually associated with false claims of saved daylight and deliberate vilification of those who either see through the deception or do not appreciate the compulsion.

"Time molesters", n. tedious people who insist on forcing their own time choices on others out of some sort of pathological need to conform or to synchonise their bowel movements. See Freud, S. Anal personality types.
Posted by Perseus, Thursday, 23 November 2006 1:35:26 PM
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Utterly stunning Perseus. I'll drink to that.
Posted by Maximus, Saturday, 25 November 2006 10:01:18 AM
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"Daylight saving" is simply a well-known [and generally well-understood] colloquialism. If we wasted our collective time analysing and defining other common colloquialisms, then we'd have no time left for other more constructive activities.

To try and be fair to all concerned, whichever side we find ourselves to be on, with this and other issues, it's human nature to do the best we can with what we've got. But the recent debate [if we can justify nonsense by calling it debate] in the WA Senate brought out some amazing comments by some of the parliamentary opponents.

[BTW, all sides of WA politics had proposers, supporters and opponents and a free vote on this.]

Opposition "points" included:
People would forget to cook the evening meal.
Early morning surfers wouldn't bother to go to work.

As for "we don't need another referendum, because WA people have already rejected daylight saving three times", well with that sort of argument, we don't need another Federal election either, do we?

Almost makes the "fading curtains' stuff seem logical, doesn't it?

Guess which side I'm on.
Posted by Rex, Saturday, 25 November 2006 11:04:48 AM
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That's all right Rex, a man has the bloody right to speak his mind and support his own opinion whenever he likes - respect - even if he is wrong. Salute mate.

And the beat goes on, thankfully.

But as I post this, I wonder how the vote counting's going on, down there in Victoria. I wonder if "time molestation" has an affect on voters. Interesting. Why else would pollies push it so? You don't suppose it's got something to do with state and capitalist production outcomes, do you?

That's something to think about.
Posted by Maximus, Saturday, 25 November 2006 5:48:26 PM
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Thanks, Maximus. There are times when I can see a lot of merit in getting up an hour earlier. And some days I even get up two hours earlier, especially when it involves a flight to somewhere. And at the moment every one of us has the right to get up earlier and to go to work an hour earlier so they can come home an hour earlier.

So why is it that these emotional cripples have a need to compel me, and everyone else to get up an hour earlier just because they can see some merit in it for themselves? The actual time is no longer the issue for me anymore.

I just have a deep and abiding dislike of the kind of boorish lumpen scheiser who cannot make a personnal decision without first compelling everyone else to do as they do. If they weren't so pathetic it would be laughable.
Posted by Perseus, Saturday, 25 November 2006 10:31:10 PM
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Changing clocks does not create more daylight.

In NQ this irrational clock changing is absurd, particularly for children.

Children have to rise early in the cool and try to get to sleep while it is still stinking hot. At 8.30pm EST it is still hot in summer, but if the clock is altered to fit in with this ridiculous relic of WW2, kids have to try to get to sleep at 7.30pm when it still light and sweltering hot.

The draw on power from those people who have airconditioners would put real strain on the electricity grid when they get home and try to get some sleep in the heat of the day.

When Qld tried DST the last time, kids were perpetually tired.

If others want to get up earlier etc, then leave the clocks alone.

I am also tired of the "fading curtains" guff, it is as bad as airline pilots having difficulty calculating the timezone changes.

Why do some people want to dictate to others. It would be interesting to see what a referendum in the southern states would be regarding DST as it seems to favour city slickers and office workers.

As far as I can see, daylight saving should be introduced in the winter time down south when there is less sunlight rather than during summer when there is more.

Oh I forgot, in the southern states it is too freezing cold to get out of bed that early :)
Posted by Aka, Monday, 27 November 2006 12:11:20 AM
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As Phil McMillan of Sarina said in todays Courier Mail;

"I don't have a problem with a split time zone but would prefer it was permanent and the state was split in two. Maybe then we could have better services and roads from the enormous wealth generated in the coalfields. Also, our daughter may not have to travel from Emerald to Mackay to have her next baby."

And if they can enshrine property rights and the principles of judicial review into their new state constitution I will be shifting my entire net worth into that new state faster than you can say "investment boom".
Posted by Perseus, Monday, 27 November 2006 10:39:10 AM
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Perseus has it right. In this state, three referenda have tossed Daylight saving. We do not want it,we tried it, hated it but a couple of smart alec pollies want it and have forced it on us for a trial of three years.Democracy died in WA parliament..
Just down the road a bit is the state election , I can hardly wait.
Posted by mickijo, Tuesday, 28 November 2006 3:26:22 PM
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