Mr(?) Dozer,

I am impressed that you are not as sleepy as your nick might imply and that you have read so widely. However, I do not follow your particlar line of 'bull' on this issue.

I am not arguing anything concerning the 'Protocols' (as you chose to do in your earlier post to Chris Shaw, comparing his work to the oft derided piece of fiction to detract value - guilt by association) I merely offered a link to what i consider to be a more thourough and unbiased piece of work on them for those not currently familiar with the book.

My point was to hopefully make everyone aware of the fact that a work of fiction (Protocols) that was in part based upon a previous work of fiction that was in part based on previously held ideas from others literary artists should not be considered as the 'origin' of Mr Shaw's work. Understand? Whatever line of Anti-semitic propaganda you may have felt you detected in the work of Shaw and were able to cast aspersions at or tie links to.

To better illustrate my point. Men have 23 ribs and women have 24. Scientists do not argue this as proof that woman was created from Adam's rib even if some of the whackier religious bretheren do (apologies to all the bretheren out there).

Even if you can find a 'connection' however tenuous, between Shaw and the Protocols I would suggest that says more about your state of mind than it does about Shaw's - but maybe Chris can tell us in his own words if my theory is right or not?

Detractions aside, Is anyone going to argue my main point about the cost of the Illegal Iraq war (Saddam was telling the truth) and who benefitted most and who always does in any war (the ones making and selling the weapons) and who loses (the ones who actually fight and get killed and who's taxes are diverted to the arms corporations)?

Part 1

I accept dozer's criticism that my attempts to explain how we got here are a bit naive. There are many stepping stones to the present. The ones we choose can only be a reflection of the self. My article was therefore a reflection of my self.

Surely you wouldn't expect any less of me.

I am a gold miner. I dug this hole looking for gold, and was not disappointed. There's plenty of gold here. Take this nuggett from KAEP, which is worth repeating:

"What is necessary is to point out why terrorism is occurring using a solid applied science focus and gain the trust of the Powers that be (PTB). You then need to have a strategy that can take the world from where it is now to some new place that addresses the main issues of energy security, corruption, global war, global pollution, climate change and especially OVERPOPULATION.

If one can do that, the PTB WILL listen because I can assure you they do not have solutions right now. They are in denial and it is apparent that their final solution is to just let the world collapse into war and make damn sure they are on the winning side. The combined trajectory of all the above problems ensures this is true.

The ONLY strategy large enough to get us out of this jam is to look at the THERMODYNAMICS of civilisation and develop a differential entropy map across all major capital flows across the world."

Part 2

KAEP has clarified something which many of us only glimpse out of the corner of the eye. The PTB, no matter how rich and influential, have no more brains than the rest of us. Their beloved monetary economy is dissolving into chaos, the more it departs from the natural "economy". They are rushing from lifeboat to lifeboat, in order to find the one which is stocked with the most free lunches.

Maybe it's time to write a new manifesto - The Protocols of Those Who Exist in the Here-and-Now. Let the historians argue over that one.

Thanks to everyone for their contribuitons. I can't remember any thread that was defended so doggedly. It was never in danger of being derailed by propaganda.

We can do it again. Peak oil and 9-11 anyone?

Cheers

From 'The Art of War', SUN TZU, c. 500 B.C.

http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html

Excerpt from: I. LAYING PLANS

10. Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army to be maintained by contributions from a distance. Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes the people to be impoverished.

11. On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's substance to be drained away.

12. When their substance is drained away, the peasantry will be afflicted by heavy exactions.

Excerpt from: II. WAGING WAR

1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, as many heavy chariots, and an hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.

3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.

From 'The Art of War', SUN TZU, c. 500 B.C.

http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html

Ev

When you actually post information rather than personal criticism and abuse you actually sound remarkably intelligent! : )

(I know - I am not stupid enough, like Red, to think that that does not apply to me as well - i GET that already! Save your breath!)

So.... there you have it folks - Sun Tsu was the 'author' of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion! : ))) The world's first known chinese anti-semite! ; ) Or did Chris Shaw plagiarise Sun Tsu's work? Or just maybe elements of the same Truth are found in many independent unrelated sources? Sheesh.

So now... any ideas for developing KAEP's thought and averting TPTB away from the profits of war and into the profit of Humanity and Peace? Where's the money in it? (more specifically how can more profit be made from it than from war?) How do we get all doctrines to agree? We are the people - we are the power, but who are we going to let lead us... or was that our big mistake in the first place? Can the internet overcome the mistake of letting others decide what we want for us? Are we actually able to decide and agree on what we all want yet?

I'll state it now - I want Peace and prosperity for all mankind.(oh - and Unity under God through accepting our uniqueness and diversity)

Not much to ask - Surely?

next?

C'monnnn I know you all have an opinion - share it and see what we agree on and where and why we differ. if we focus we might just be able to do something positive for a change!

Chis,
Well said mate, thankfully your credentials speak for themselves, so you, and the rest of us who know you are correct cannot just be written off as some mindless rabble. My appreciation to you, for your article, hopefully a few doubters may look at events from your perscective and begin to acknowledge the truth of this article.