Benjamin,

You raise good issues and are adept at turning others' weapons back against them. Well done.

It is also worth pointing out that this woman, Leslie Cannold, declares herself as an ethicist. From your writing, you, however, seem to hold a different opinion. I must confess, I strongly tend towards your way of thinking.

Good stuff.

ybgirp,

In answer to your question "Why are we heading back to the dark ages of religious dictatorship and terrorism from which our forbears extricated themselves with great sacrifice?"

Could it be, ybgirp, because nobody has noticed the size of the pile of 'proxy' votes in the ballot boxes over the past century? "Forrest! You wicked boy! Go wash your mouth out with soap and water this minute! This is Australia! Such a thing could never happen! Goodness me, if you go around suggesting such things, there's just no telling what might happen...."

Sorry (oops, that word again) ybgirp, got interrupted by my alter-egotist just then. I'm immensely relieved about that research relating 'religiousness' to levels of persecution, anti-social behaviour, suicide, crime, violence and so on, because at any level or by any standard, you'd have to say Australia was one of the least 'religious' countries in the world. She should be right, mate. But hold on, we're copping more of all this rubbish than ever before. Are you sure the research is right? Got to admit it sounds good. Why's it happening?

Tell you what might explain it ybgirp. What if 'the religious' had somehow worked out how to get most of the 'proxy votes' that hang about in the ballot boxes over a century or so, and used them to play both ends against the middle in Australian politics? You know, get the adoption of policies for which there is no enthusiasm at all in the general community (like multiculturalism), first by one major party, and then by the other, such that the whole community loses respect for the political process across the board. Got to go now ybgirp, here comes my alter-egotist with a bar of soap and a toothbrush, and he's got an sociologist academic with him, and......

Religion is not illegal in Australia, and if the author and the Pru Goward feel so strongly about males and religion, then they are quite free to start their own religion.

There has never been a male Sex Discrimination Commissioner in Australia, and most of the time there are no males in the Sex Discrimination Commission. There are no males in the Office of Women, and only a few males are ever employed in gender departments of Universities.

Such organizations are now the churches of feminism, and these churches are almost completely gender biased and sexist. Nothing but negativity towards the male gender comes from such organizations, and they are also some of the most discriminatory organizations now operating in Australia.

What is most interesting about Leslie Cannold's contribution, which is moderate, reasonable and non-confronting, is the hatred of women it unleashed in the responses from people like James, Benjamin, Maximus. Thanks Leslie for your thoughtful and logical appeal for the recognition of women's rights as human rights. Imagine the apoplectic hysteria if you'd asked for something really radical.

Yes - nothing like a calm and measured article from a feminist to bring on a feeding frenzy from the misogynists among us. Did anybody happen to see "Compass" last night, on the continuing discrimination against women in the Anglican church?

I find it a real conundrum when human rights equate to women's rights, but then I guess more than a few women regard men as less than human therefore not deserving of human rights.

George Rolph on when men are accused of hating women.
"however, criticising female behaviour is not the same as hating females."


Thomas Ellis "When they call you a 'woman hater' they mean
'how dare you disagree with me!' Don't bother getting upset. why waste the energy."

"Women's opinions are automatically awarded more merit than men's opinions."

"But I dont think a man's role in a relationship is simply to validate the veiws of a woman."

As to the shows on TV, treat every single one as fiction until proven otherwise. Latelines sensational story on the abuse of aboringal children was a frabrication by a number of people.