I don't think that effective discipline is ever a black or white solution.It all depends upon the individual.Some people are very sensitive personalities and will respond to reason,while others need a wack.

If we look at our humanity in evolutionary terms,our present civilisation has only evolved in the last few thousand years,when homo sapiens has been around for 2 million years.Now for most of our genetic evolution harsh environmental disciplines have dictated our lives.If our ancestors didn't get up and chase the Bison,they starved.Life was harsh and short and so was the discipline.Now in the last couple of hundred years,we have controlled our environment,and there hasn't been the necessity for the same discipline,so we have suffered decay both emotionally and physically.

Unless our families and schools impose an effective artifical discipline to replace the environmental ones of our past,we will go the way of all the other great civilisations.

Cornflower - "What about some gender and age equity?"

I hope not, young kids do stuff adults would go to jail for.

If a kid hits another at school he or she might score a suspension unless the attack is very serious or one of a long string of them. If I did the same at work I'd at least lose my job and possibly do a jail term.

Do you really want age equality?

In reality we should be using the consequences for bad choices most likely to result in better choices next time round.

There has already been a thread (started by Boaz_David) on the the general discussion area about spanking and I don't plan to revisit that here.

Age equality is a nightmare if you want to start applying adult consequences to children, they are not ready for it.

I did start a thread on a toolkit for disciplining kids trying to gather ideas for effective strategies for disciplining kids (including the age appropriate bit). It died fairly quickly thru lack of interest.

People were much more interested in talking about spanking than in discussion alternatives, a point I found rather interesting.

R0bert

RObert

You miss the point - other countries do have flogging for adults.

It strikes me that some contributors would have flogging for kids but not for themselves.

Generally adults insist that if they are treated with respect and understanding they will learn. Maybe they could try the same with their children.

I agree that parents do need to learn to say, 'No'. My wife and I do this and keep control of our children who do behave themselves out in public. However, you appear to have simplistic views of why society is in the dog house.

Firstly, churches have proved that they can not be trusted with our children as they rape them then protect each other. Not to forget the other forms of abuse. People rightfully do not trust the institutions of the church.

One very main factor of the destruction of the family is interference into the family by governments and left wing minority politics.

In Western Australia, a parent can not even hold a child by the wrist while reprimanding them as that is a criminal offence. Now that parents in W.A. can't discipline their children, youth crime is out of control and parents are being criminally convicted for not controlling their children when it is the politicians who should be in prison for causing this mayhem.

Time to stop interfering with families and let them be.

Further to my points on capers of the NT government, parents this week have learned that the NT government has introduced suicide to the curriculum. So, if one doesnt meet the party thought as described by unleashed MLA's, or if one doesnt get along with the 'councillors', there is a third option in the curriculum.

Parents are outraged.

http://ntnews.news.com.au/

http://www.news.com.au/index/0,,17001,00.html

Cornflower, "Generally adults insist that if they are treated with respect and understanding they will learn. "

I think that most of us accept that deterants are part of the process. As an adult they play a smaller part than they did when I was younger and my views on ethics were less of an issue. They still play a part when I don't agree with a law.

The balance between deterents and personal values is different for each of us and probably changes for each of us at different stages of our lives.

If I ever found myself in the position of facing a couple of years jail and had an alternative of a couple of strokes with the cane (of the type that was used when I was at school) I know which I'd pick.

If you are talking equality then compare apples with apples. There is a big difference between the kind of flogging dished out to adults in the countries that use that as a punishment and what I understand proponents of corporal punishment for children to be supporting.

As I said earlier I think the issue is about finding the approach that is most likely to encourage a child to make better choices in the future. A few days off school does not seem to be a particularly useful solution to that.

R0bert