BOAZ_David

If you use a thump or two to 'train' boys how then do you train your dog/s?

Hate to think that you have woken up to using praise and encouragement for dogs but not for boys.

Or is the corporal punishment about meeting your needs not theirs?

Maybe your heart is in the right place, however there is a lot of solid evidence against smacking and corporal punishment.

Cornflower,smacking or caning does not hurt as much as the social derision.To be embarrased or excluded intellectually or made feel inferior by perceived social defects which is not illegal,causes far more damage.

We should not go back to the bad old days of caning as the reactionary tool of discipline,however in some schools it is a great deterrent.The fear is often greater deterrent than the actual pain.Discipline is a complex structure of fostering respect for the individual,giving them hope for the future with the abilities they have,having clear boundaries in which they can operate in safety,all within a caring environment,laced always with humour and love.

It is almost an impossible task to educate children on masse who come from socio-economic deprived backgrounds.These poor housing estates just amplified all their problems.We have generations lost because of the lack of love and discipline both at home and school and we are now pay all paying the price in crime and drug abuse.Our leftist leaning soft option education systems have made their plight worse.

The best way to reform hardened deliquents is to put them in a rual situation,give them real responsibilities and if they don't tend he cows etc,guess what,no breakfast.You run a hard disciplined ship and you will get results if you show you care.Now all the hand ringing do gooders will not allow this tough discipline because it infringes on their rights.Well I say the neglecting of children with this no boundaries mentality,as perpetrated by our socialist Govts is the ultimate infringement of rights.They have fostered criminal neglect.

This state once set up a so called Boot Camp to teach difficult youth some self discipline. Just as it was ready to roll, the nay sayers started screaming about the poor little delinquents rights and the scheme was abandoned.
The trouble is the 'nay sayers' will stop anything positive but will offer nothing to replace that original idea.So nothing gets done and those who genuinely care lost heart.
Why are children allowed to get so out of hand,they go on to make bad parents who breed more unruly children.

Worth having a look at:

"Hundreds of NSW children subject to AVOs"

http://www.optusnet.com.au/news/story/abc/20061022/11/domestic/1770581.inp

Arjay, couldnt agree more. In order to learn cause and effect, and consequence-based thinking, kids need to be brought-up in an environment where the consequences are real, reasonably immediate and not life-threatening. Your 'dont tend the cows, then no breakfast" is a great example of this. I grew up on a family farm, in a one-parent family, surrounded by people that loved me, but who wouldnt hesitate to give me a clip behind the ears if necessary. Of course every now and then, us kids would run riot and damn the consequences. Well we got our hides tanned for it and generally rightly so. As the eldest I copped a few that I really didnt deserve, but thems the breaks.

I am now bringing up my own family, and while I dont want to be authoritarian, my kids will be expected to act within set boundaries, and when I say no I mean it. Sure we'll probably have some falling outs, and there will also be the odd occasion when I relax the rules and let them have their way - that doesnt hurt occasionally, so long as no one is going to be hurt by it. And yes, I smack my children, thoughly mostly not freqently, and never hard enough to hurt, just sting. Cornflower, I also whack my dog if he plays up - I have found the best training of a dog is done via a mixture of reward and discipline. I have been rewarded with a generally well-behaved dog that is unerringly loyal. That's the difference between cats and dogs - smack a cat and he'll just crap behind your lounge. But that's a topic for another debate!

Some well-respected research looked at 3 styles of authority:

laissez-faire

autocratic

democratic

Which of these has to be the model for parenting - when we have to teach kids that not all adults can be completely trusted; that they can get electrocuted; that some foods have transfats that clog their arteries.

We need authoritative- not authoritarian - parenting to help kids mature and grow. 50 years ago most kids left school at 15, all by 17. Almost all were in work at 19.
Many kids today are in prolonged adolescence, go to uni for years, and are still staying at home with Mum and Dad in their late 20s or 30s. They aren't independent adults, yet aren't children.

The movie "Failure to Launch" shows one family struggling with a 30 year old who won't become independent.

Governments need to get in and help parents more. And somehow we have to encourage kids to learn and grow, while giving them an occasional prod of some kind. Being a Mum or a Dad is bloody hard these days.