In my previous comments on this thread, I certainly wasn't casting aspersions on the practices, ethics or efficiency of our farmers. Rather, I was attempting to point out the simple fact that their big problem in attracting labour, both on their farms and in secondary industries like abbatoirs, is quite simply that they don't pay enough. Labour is relatively scarce at the moment, and people are less likely to do crap work for very ordinary money.

At my local abbatoir - which processes sheep and goats - the average rate for semi-skilled workers is around $20.00 per hour. Workers often do extra hours (at the standard rate), and once or twice a year the plant shuts down for a week or two, supposedly because of shortages of stock.

In the last year or so, we've seen an influx of Sudanese immigrants, who are mostly very happy to work at the same rates as the others. Unfortunately, there is little accommodation and absolutely nothing in the way of support services for these good people - other than that which those of us who run businesses etc in the town provide.

Probably partly because they aren't seen to be doing anybody out of work (and are in general quite delightful, honest and hardworking people), there have been virtually no problems that I have seen in their accommodation in our small town. Yes, there's been a little bit of racism at the meatworks, but I think it's quite remarkable just how well our community has accommodated the unprecedented influx of substantial numbers of very ummm... BLACK... Sudanese people in our midst.

As I said, by and large these people seem very happy to do the work that many Australians apparently won't.

Here's a thought: Maybe we ahould increase our refugee intake?

"If agriculture is prepared to pay decent wages, or the workers get tax incentives and better conditions, they will get the labour they need. Employers need to find other ways of cutting costs."

You are free to be dogmatic about that, but the workers are simply
not there, in a place like WA. In fact, lets take your example
further, lets say wages spiral upwards, far beyond productivity.
Many industries which you depend on for your wellbeing, would
close down, inflation spirals upwards, interest rates spiral
upwards, workers would be the biggest losers.

Is 20$ a hour a fair amount for unskilled labour? Plus 9%
super etc, in the end it adds up about 25$ a hour. If those
export industries which can't compete with the present mining
boom, cannot compete and shut down, where will your jobs be
when the present mining/housing boom ends?

My point is we need some urgent, short term solutions, to take
the pressure off things, or in the end everyone loses. When
interest rates go up next due to rising inflation, everyone
paying a mortgage, will lose for instance.

The meat industry is an industry that needs to be able to respond
to climate, govts can't legislate for rainfall. The best way
to do that, is flexibility with labour. Banjo, you have yet
to say if you are against foreign aid. If you are for helping
those in poorer countries, why do you want to deny them an
income, by taking some wages back to their countries?

Obviously it is more convenient for employers to simply import foreigners, particularly if they already have the necessary skills. There may be quite genuine labour shortages in particular areas. However, real unemployment rates are very much higher than what the government trumpets, close to 17% according to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald a few months ago. Many of these people and their families helped to build this country and were drafted to fight in places like Vietnam. It seems to me that mutual obligation cuts both ways and that these people (including any refugees that we take) should be offered any jobs that are going first rather than having foreigners hired over their heads.

It would be quite possible for the federal government to screen people to find suitable workers and then give them help so that they could go to WA to work for a trial period without burning their bridges at home. (Otherwise, how is an unemployed person in Wollongong, say, to pay for transportation to WA? What if the job doesn't work out?) If both the new employee and his employer are happy at the end of the trial period, he gets a permanent job, and the government then helps him relocate his family. If there is a case for government assistance to an industry then employees could be given tax relief, to make relatively low wages more attractive. The assertion that no one, without exception, would be willing to move away from family or friends needs to be tested before we even think of bringing in foreign workers.

The question "would aborigines work even if they were offered the jobs?" is a ridiculus statement in its self. Aboriginal people do work across all sectors. They are doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, police officers, public servants, hospitality workers and performing artists, there are also those who are cleaners, garderners, carers AND 'fruit pickers'. I wonder if Helen and the other fourm members who seem to think this is a good idea have ever picked fruit themselves, I'd imagine the majority have not! When we think about 'real jobs' for Aboriginal people perhaps we should include ALL those non-Aboriginal people sitting on welfare who have also 'chosen' not to work in the 'real world'

Sparkles, good points there.

But we must concentrate and listen to the resident OLO experts Yabby and Leigh.

They know and see all on behalf of Aboriginal people. They have spent most of their lives living and working with Aboriginal people and communities, learning their customs and traditions, even being adopted as 'one of them'.

I'm told they earnt multiple anthropological, political, science and economics degrees from Harvard and Oxford. [Where did they get the time to do that!]

Apparently Leigh’s skin name is "Watawanka"

Yabby's is "Wannabe Wannabe"

Moreover, they have conducted extensive studies on Aboriginal engagement in the labour market, lobbied for reforms in welfare policy and visited every Aboriginal community in Australia. This research forms the basis for their insights and proclamations here on OLO.

The Australian financial review reported that they could be earning heaps overseas or for the UN but choose to remain here in Australia - informing legislators and policy makers and advising Ministers for Aboriginal affairs in each state and territory.

Their reputations are indisputably extensive, comprehesive and professional.

That they have seen fit to provide us their insights here on OLO is a blessing.

We should be grateful.

Just ask them!

"Yabby's is "Wannabe Wannabe""

ROFL Rainier. Actually Yabby simply makes his rational arguments,
you are free to prove him wrong, based on your ability to reason.
Ad hominem arguments simply mean that you don't have an answer
to the arguments :)

I frankly don't care if you are the Queen or Paul Keating, we
all stand all fall by the reasoning of our postings, all very simple!

Divergence, there is a scheme paying 5000$ for people to move
interstate etc. The point is that some of these jobs have been
open for a few years. Fact is that Aussies can choose to work or
not, choose to move or not. Many simply do not want to leave friends
and family for a job. Fair enough.

Meantime the WA economy surges ahead at 14% growth, as people flock
to the mining industry. Hundreds of thousands of animals are carted
across the country to be slaughtered, at huuuuge expense. Doesent
make alot of sense for anyone. The meat industry, due to varying
rainfall, will always have some seasonal component, Govts can't
legislate for rainfall. So the solution is obvious.

Yes give Aussies jobs first. But if all else fails, use overseas
contract labour, on a seasonal basis. Not everyone wants to live here. Many would be happy to do a season or whatever, then take
their money home and live where their family and friends are,
so its a win-win situation. Meantime we lose exports, farmers
lose heaps amounts of money as everyone conemplates their navels
over this one. Why should they, when its a win-win situation
for all? Europe has been doing this stuff for 40 years, with
huge success