TEAM... one of the most interesting things reported here is the Phelps church.. does anyone realize that it consists pretty much of his own extended family ? And this small family, is being quoted here on OLO almost as if they were some kind of socio/nuclear threat.
Ignorrrrre the guy for crying out loud.

One more point.. if West, W and Funguy actually READ my posts, you will notice I specifically use the term "Homosexual BEHAVIOR" as in..actions.. Regarding the 'wiring' all I can offer is that I don't have a problem with men loving men or women loving women.. even I love a few men..but I DON'T HAVE SEX with them. And thats the key point. It is abundatly clear that men have penises and women have vagina's as in designed for each other. There is no reproduction without male sperm and female egg, and the way they meet up is through heterosexual intercourse. So, clearly a man using the anus of another man for an act which is primarily reproductive is devient.

Enough on that.. related to the topic.... I don't see a muscular Christianity as being sympathetic in the slightest to homosexual acts.
I see the opposite.

The increasingly bold practice of celebrating homosexual behavior is a true abomination. We don't have 'hetero' days... If this was ancient Israel I would be drawing a DIRECT connection between this trend and the drought.

We need to be equally suspicious if any politician speaks in ways which seem to support 'our' religious tradition. It's always about votes.

Westy..I see sneeky is also suspicious that you might have had a regrettable and embittering experience at the hands of some church person....Don't blame God for the actions of those who are supposed to represent Him.

BD

I know there is not a lot of point in trying to talk sense into you. But I hope you can sleep well with this knowledge, by the time that I am your age, homosexual marriages WILL be legal, people of my generation will make sure of it, and it will be a great day for liberty and human dignity.

Sigh.

BD, a moment’s reflection, and you would see the contradiction in complaining about others basing their generalisations about christians on Fred Phelps, while you use a tiny, discredited and universally rejected group as the basis of your generalisations about homosexuals.

It’s possible to love left-handed people while despising left-handed behaviour. Indeed, left-handers have at various times been persecuted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handedness#Cultural_stigmatisation, but only after they had chosen to indulge in aberrant left-handed behaviour.

mjpb, we’ll just have to disagree on the rainbow sash thing. However you’ve misunderstood my point about the discrimination practised by the catholic church. I wasn’t talking specifically about homosexuals being excluded from the priesthood – I was referring to homosexuals being excluded from employment in any capacity in religious schools and institutions. A statement in advertisements and job descriptions about requiring staff to support the church’s values and model christian behaviour is code for “no poofters!” And it’s not just religious teachers or practitioners. Here’s the code in an ad for an English teacher: http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/staff_employ.php?id=5 Here it is again in an ad for a PA to a school principal: http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/sydney/education/administration-operations/4507775+principal+s+personal+assistant+enrolment+secretary.aspx

The task of clearing out unwanted homosexuals has been made significantly easier by the recent Workchoices [sic] legislation.

You also need to understand that in my previous post I wasn’t being tactical. My point came from a deeply held principle of respect for others, and I’ve made similar points in these forums several times before. Apparently this will come as a surprise to you, but it’s possible to hold humane, ethical principles independently of religious belief.

Boaz,

“If this was ancient Israel I would be drawing a DIRECT connection between this trend and the drought.”

Possibly without realizing it you have managed to nail the origins of organized religion.

All the great temple states of the ancient world were controlled by priests who managed to convince the plebs that they alone were in communion with the gods who produced the life giving rains (or river floods) on which those civilizations relied.

The special knowledge was not direct communication with the gods: it was the ability to measure time accurately (using astronomy) to predict natural cycles. If you live in an area where there monsoon arrives pretty much the same date each year, and you have the astronomical and mathematical ability to be able to pick that date, then your credibility amongst the hungry farmers tends to be high, and easily exploited.

Most of us are relative newcomers to a continent that’s had pretty unpredictable rainfall patterns for most of the last few millennia. Now the scientists are telling us that the increased CO2 in the atmosphere from the past couple of centuries’ fossil fuel burning is actually going to destabilize that pattern further.

Are you seriously telling us that if we cancel this year’s Mardi Gras, then we’ll get more rain? In previous years Fred Nile used to actually pray for rain during the parade. Could God be getting a bit confused about the rain/homosexuality thing?

I for one would be delighted to attend a “hetero day” celebration if it means the dams will fill.

P.S.: Delighted to see your comments on Phelps. It seems your nutcase-detector is working! ;>)

Hi Snout....

No..I didn't nail the origins of all religions :) I pointed out one aspect of the covenant relationship that was outlined in Deuteronomy.
If you have an hour or 3...have a read.

Having worked as a missionary among animistic societies, and been able to reflect on the issue you raised, I feel I'm fairly qualified to dispute your assessment of the history of Gods activities with Ancient Israel.

The one thing you don't see, is how the Levites were constantly fighting the pressure of paganism and animism and immoral fertility cults, which were present in the nations dispossessed by and surrounding Israel. The whole concept of Israel's structure was in terms of its relationship with God, so that 'All the world will be blessed' (Gen 12:3)

If all religions began as you say, then Israel would have simply slid into the mould of the Canaanite fertility gods. Then your comments would apply.

There were famines of a general nature in the region of course (Israel/Egypt) but there were specific famines promised by God as discipline for spiritual waywardness, and Elijah/Elisha are 2 characters where we see this.

It is always dangerous to claim 'God is punishing us' with an earthquake or rain or the lack thereof, but as I look at the moral declension in our community, it would not suprise me if we did get a kick in the pants from on High. My wifes people embraced Christ, and soon after there was a smallpox epidemic almost wiping out some villages, there were voices of 'the spirits are punishing us' but others suggesting 'God is testing our faith'... to me it was simply a case of nasty germs in the wrong place and the wrong time. It is a great temptation to spiritualize things like weather and sickness.

Given Fred Phelps world wide notoriety...I wonder how I'd go marching down main street Weribee denouncing and calling for the stoning of those youths who did the DVD of their abuse of the intellectually challenged girl.....*thinks*

If you are referring to the Reverend Fred Phelps , or Family First or Al-Qaeda, Vatican, Opus Dei ect and claim the spiritual beliefs of such anti human groups are not acting on the basic premise of their entire religion it is just another bumper sticker exercise in “people kill , god does not”.

It goes like this Boaz, where is your Justification? Is it that you are god or do you speak directly to god using a pin number enabled Ouija board?

If not then everything that is said that is relevant to god is pure fantasy based on your personal prejudices. Your justification is based on your interpretation of fiction. The Bible and Quran construct those cults’ gods as violent monsters of low intelligence and zero awareness. God is limited by the intellect and imagination of the believer. Many find the rituals, teachings of Christianity and Islam and others extremely offensive but do not branch stack, lobby or seek out Christians and Muslims to attack. Nobody is trying to ban Christian marriage or stop life long Christian partners from accessing inheritance from the other. There is no ‘youth groups’ of 10 year olds chanting god will punish the Christians before breaking into bland rock music.

Again, god is silent on the matter; it is perfectly natural for a non existent mythological creature to be silent. The silence does not support you or Phelps or Al-Qaeda or the pope or Jim Jones or anybody else who thinks and speaks on (a) god(s) behalf. That said, anybody who speaks on gods behalf is followed. Those who believe in god have no god so the next best thing is to follow somebody who claims they know whatever god.

Let us test my theory. My interpretation is that Genesis states God is gay. If God is not Gay then God will deny it on this thread. We will all know it is Gods own post by gods own hand. There is infinitely more chance for excuses from humans than a god capable of responding. A non-existent god cannot respond.