Benjamin,

Thought its a good idea to bring in an Australian Muslim comments:

1. Sheikh Hilali: I dont recall him ever talking about Sharia laws in Australia, please quote the source or stats who is asking for Sharia laws to be implemented in Australia. "why is he a sheikh?" cause he studied Islamic faith and is preaching it (anoyone who does that is a sheikh). He introduced new Aussie sheikhs this year in the beginning of Ramadan. He is as conservative as most of his generation although I think he should stay clear of politics and focus on matter of faith.

2. Sharia laws: have an inheritence, family, divorce and criminal justice system. Did anyone investigate who wants to implement what?

3. The 'muslims are silent' statement sounds like an old boring broken disk and honestly its becoming annoying to all Australians Muslims and non-muslims. Here is an 'encyclopedia' of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism and violence:

http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html

Peace,

Col Rouge, maybe you haven’t intended to lie. But you’ve certainly got a few things wrong. However, take comfort you’re not Robinson Crusoe on that.

For example, in speaking for the silent majority, you advise us to get out more and find out how many people in “mainstream Australia” oppose multiculturalism. You advise us to get out and mix with “real Australians”. Assimilate or face extinction, you advise.

Well, I went down the street this morning a bought The Age. You could have knocked me over with a feather! There it was on page 1, along with Korea’s nuke test:

“People put freedom of speech and tolerance of different religions and cultures much higher in their lexicon of "Australian values" than mateship or a fair go."

Last week an ACNielsen/ Age Poll asked a sample of 1408 Australians to choose the value most important to them from a list of five. 27% selected freedom of speech. A quarter chose tolerance of different religions and cultures. More than one in five (21 per cent) selected a fair go, and 17 per cent nominated respect for democracy and Parliament. Mateship, often touted by media tart John Howard, came in last with only 8 per cent nominating it as the most important.

Labor and Coalition voters vary little in the importance they give tolerance of different religions and cultures, or a fair go. They support these values in roughly equal numbers.
So now you might be confused, Col (not lying I hasten to add): this poll seems to be saying that tolerance of diverse cultures and religions and the right to hear many voices rates pretty high among “real”, “mainstream” Australians. The “silent majority” seem to be saying something different to what you and a lot of posters on this forum are claiming.

Maybe you should get out more, Col, and take your mates with you and mix with ordinary, tolerant Australians, mate.

Ummm Frank, where was the sample taken...from the age subscription database? That is sure to skew the results mate. I have partaken in surveys and the results don't mean much. You only have set answers to choose from and most of the time, you don't really want to do the survey in the first place. Most people just do it because they were asked and felt sorry for the people doing the asking.

If I had the opportunity to participate in the ACNielsen/Age Poll cited above, I would have ranked Australian values similarly to those quoted. I suspect that many of my friends, acquaintances and customers would have also responded similarly.

However, these are people who mostly are not given to proclaiming the "rightness" of their views anonymously on the Internet - particularly in the hateful, antagonistic and objectionable terms that one often reads in this forum.

Most of us value "free speech" more than just about any other "value" - however, as a fundamental social value it carries not only rights, but responsibilities - including (but not limited to) the obligation to respect the freedom of speech of others. It seems to me that atempting to 'shout down' the legitimate arguments of others, in intemperate personal attacks against those who post contrary views, runs completely counter to that most fundamental of values.

Unfortunately, it seems to be part of the 'culture' of the OLO Forum that a relative few unreasonable ranters can effectively silence others who might like to contribute to a civilised discussion about often difficult subjects.

Sory Easy but I stand by my assertion -- being a 6th generation means nothing in my eyes.
And your family did not build this country - they were a part of its construction just like the post war immigrants - like the Chinese, the irish - ..get it.
And yes I was born here but it was not a choice i made - i just got lucky. But some days I wonder.
Too make matters worse I am not a fan of the flag or the constitutional monarchy either.

And in closing multiculturalism is here to stay:get used to it

Frankgol wrote:

"Last week an ACNielsen/ Age Poll asked a sample of 1408 Australians to choose the value most important to them from a list of five. 27% selected freedom of speech. A quarter chose tolerance of different religions and cultures. More than one in five (21 per cent) selected a fair go, and 17 per cent nominated respect for democracy and Parliament."

unquote

And what part of those do not reflect Australian values of freedom of the individual, equality of opportunity and equality before the law - of individsuals?

As I have said before, and as my lecturer in a uni subject on multiculturalism taught: multiculturalism is about privileging a cultural group or groups rather than individuals. It can mean subsidising them to enable them to maintain their language, or even inviting non-elected 'community leaders' to forums.

I am an Anglican - but I am not represented by the bishop, the archbishop or anyone else in the church hierachy. I am represented at all levels of government, and in many non goverment situations by elected representatives. Any club that I belong to has elected officials. The bodies corporate for our home unit blocks are elected. That is the Australian way.

How many cultural groups have elected representatives? Those that have, I have no trouble with.

I also don't have any problem with Islamic women wearing the hajjib (so long as their faces can be seen). I have no trouble with various ethnic festivals and the like.

I do have problems with such groups as the Jewish population in the seat of Wentworth not wanting that seat's boundaries changed, because they want to vote as a block. (see http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/why/redistributions/2005/nsw/object/NO1965.pdf#search=%22wentworth%20jewish%20boundaries%22 )

By the way, I don't have a problem with Jewish people at all, I have friends who are Jewish: I do have a problem with any cultural group wanting to be able to manipulate democracy to their advantage.

Our democracy is about individuals and their rights and obligations. Multiculturalism is about groups rather than individuals.