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The Forum > Article Comments > Education, religion and values: Getting the mix right > Comments

Education, religion and values: Getting the mix right : Comments

By Noel Preston, published 5/10/2006

How justified is the values related explanation for the shift to private schools? What is the case for integrating values and schooling?

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I thankyou Philo for confirming exactly what I said. You personally attacked me and personally labelled me as a bigot for rejecting a cult ideology you wish to see forced upon innocent people.
Bertrand Russell simply was wrong. The so called ‘morality’ of the New Testament comes directly from the Roman soldier cult of Chrisos and the affirmable elements were found in most cults in Eurasia.
Why is Christianity immoral? Because it is a cult of bigotry, the proof of which is what Christians believe happen to non-Christians. Therefore the spine of Christian values is based on prejudice and exclusionism.
Christian values when operationalized are articulated in witch burning , inquisition , holy wars , controlling women’s bodies, banning gay (others) marriage, brainwashing children into accepting superstition, slavery, colonisation, ethnic cleansing (eg Pagans) , anti Semitism, sectarian violence, terrorism (northern Ireland , Oklahoma), money farming, mind control (Jones Town) ect.
If the Biblical character of Jesus had taught good values the above would be impossible to have occurred.
The imperative in any set of religious values is not common good but the appeasement of an idol or deity. After all the character of Jesus in the bible was a human sacrifice by his followers to appease their god.
I certainly find Christian values offensive and would be shocked and dismayed if they were forced upon my children. Children to not belong to Christianity, to force Christian values upon children would be an abuse of human rights.
If you wish to attack me then please begin with telling me what Christians believe happen to non-Christians
Posted by West, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:00:37 AM
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West, I suggest you identify your model society; since it is not Christian or espousing the principles of morality found in the New Testament. Just what is it you see as your model? Where do we see it in operation?

Knockers based in ignorance are a dime a dozen, builders of a civilised society are few.
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 11 October 2006 12:39:37 AM
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Philo I suggest a society built on mutual respect rather than tolerance. Christianity is not respectful of others; if it were then it would not seek to have its (so called) values taught to non Christians. For stating the obvious naturally I could be accused of not respecting Christians but I am not suggesting dictating to Christians they must live by my beliefs. Christians on the other hand are attempting to force their values on to others. Just as Islamic terrorists are attempting to force their values and just as Christian terrorists such as Timothy McVeigh tried to force Christian values onto others. Just as Christians have prevented gays from marriage Christians have forced their values onto others. Just as Christians have had abortion banned in South Dakota, Christians have forced their values onto others. Just as Christians have force teaching Children myth as science in parts of the U.S they have forced their values onto others. Now Christians assume they have a right to force their values onto other people’s children here. All the above is based on prejudice, ignorance, hostility and that is what Jesus preached through exclusionism. What Christians call values is nothing more than a type of fascism. I will not draw up a blue print for a better society that is an exercise in fascism.
The accusation that children have no values is a false accusation. Anybody who suggests we need to install values into children must be treated with grave suspicion. These poor kids are battling in an environment of market predators and their parents are indentured to be away from the family home for ridiculous hours. Now Christians and fascists are calling for them to be brainwashed into exploitive ideology.
Now please tell me what do Christians believe happens to non-Christians?
Posted by West, Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:33:31 AM
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West,
In answer to your inquiry: "Now please tell me what do Christians believe happens to non-Christians?" If one ignores the principles of moral living then the result of their life is personal torment, social disconnect and grief. For instance: "Do not committ adultery" talk to the spouse of the offender and see if she bears grief. For instance: "Do not steal" talk to the person who has had his / her house ransacked and see if such behaviour advances social good. For instance: "Do not lie" talk to the person who has been deceived or slandered and see if they are happy. For instance: "Do not kill" talk to the family whose member has been murdered and see if it leads to a better society. In all these cases Christ taught repentance by offenders, and forgiveness of those violated. The taking of a life is not justified in the Christian society [as the Armish have demonstrated this week].

The wisdom of the ages have taught us to be socially responsible toward others and to aspire for higher things other than material assets. Love the right life and care for ones neighbour. Both these principles have assumed excluding clauses, disrespect for good behaviour brings pain, even as disrespect for ones neighbour. Christ taught and demonstrated both,love of the highest moral life and care for ones neighbour, even to his enemies. The behaviour of anti-social people must be restrained or removed from society. We believe is excluding behaviours and influences that destroy best thought and behaviours in society. Unfortunately Christians fail because of improper passions even as nonbelievers.
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 11 October 2006 3:42:55 PM
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I do not believe that it is necessarily socially irresponsible to:

Be in a defacto relationship.
Have children outside of formal marriage.
Be in a gay relationship.
Have an abortion.
Start a new relationship without first getting divorced.
[And plenty of other scenarios.]

Note that I said "necessarily". All of these things and more could involve some degree of social irresponsibility, but not merely because they are disapproved of by some religious people.

I would class the following as socially irresponsible:

Teaching religion to those who have not specifically requested it, except in a comparative, historical or philosophical manner.
Teaching creationism, except as a theory believed in by some people, which does not stand up to critical examination.
Teaching young people to be judgemental toward those who do not fit the rigid standards of some religions.
Teaching young people that there is only one path to Heaven and that's the one being promoted by those who are brainwashing them.

Those who don't feel comfortable with my last point could reflect on the fact that this is what is taught in religious terrorist indoctrination schools/camps. Note that I did not define the type of belief promoted in such schools/camps, religious bigotry knows no boundaries.
Posted by Rex, Wednesday, 11 October 2006 4:49:43 PM
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Well put, Rex.
Posted by edwardcav, Thursday, 12 October 2006 5:39:17 AM
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