The aforementioned premise that if you're a good, Christian gentleman who'll work for the common wealth, then you will be a good citizen, reaks more of detriment here in contemporary Australia.

So complicated is the state of Australia in terms of culture, nationality, influence, media, foreign policy and our own history of blunders and blinders - that I can so no good coming from the separation of young people into religious sectors that are often merely based on their parents' beliefs of a statistically dwindling olden day religion and of a superior education coming from such cashed up schools.

The more Australia grows with multi nationalism and multi culturalism, would it not seem that the less relevant a place Christianity has with Aussie youth? Hard to answer, but worthy of consideration.

Noel you offer an extremely good argument. It has to be kept in mind however, religion is a political movement self justified by mythology. The claim that any set of religious beliefs has in any way a set of ‘good values’ or morality should be rejected outright, especially when it is based on monotheism. This is because the principle value of monotheism is inclusionism (gods chosen) and exclusionism (others- whom god rejects). On that level religion is nothing more than another word for bigotry. Even if we considered the alleged teaching of Jesus, Jesus comes out as nothing more than a bigot willing to only save the souls of the chosen (those who accept Christ as a supernatural king). The reality is values are a born characteristic of our personalities. A serial killer will kill wether he believes in a god or not. A neighbourly person will ‘love thy neighbour’ wether Atheist or Christian. Teaching religious values in schools is politics not spirituality. Its primary objective is psychological control and command through superstition. For that reason teaching religious values in schools is itself immoral and so self redundant as a vehicle to install values to children.

This values debate is really about allowing the extreme Christian Right rule our children’s minds. We as a nation should address this issue head on. There is no difference between the values of the Christian Right and the Taliban and Al-Queda. Australia should interpret Afghanistan as a warning to alert us to what the inevitable result is of mixing religion and politics

Westy

No difference ?

Let me explain it simply..

JESUS said.."Behold, I stand at the door knocking, to him who opens, I will come in, and eat with him"

MOHAMED SAID "If anyone changes his deen (from Islam to any other), KILL him"

Now pleaseeeee don't tell me you cannot see the difference ?

Christ is the one who knocks.. "anyone home, may I come in"?

You and anyone else can keep that door of your heart deadlocked till you die. No one but no one can force your heart, mind and will to open it.

The difference is as far as the east is from the west.

cheers

Exactly Boaz, Im sure the North Korean leader Kim Jong Il offers "Choice" to do as he commands just as Jesus does in the Bible. What do Christians believe happens to those who do not "choose" to submit to what Christs commands?

This is translated into the real world as the persecution of those who choose not to follow those who speak for Christ , command others on Christs behalf, those who seek to dictate their values to non-Christians. The chosen people who can confidently claim they are a type of master race for they are saved.

Bible quotes dont mean very much. Passages from Mein Kampf can be quoted to paint Hitler as having sincere concerns for Germany's welfare. The underlying principle in Christs teachings is exclusionism and so bigotry. It cannot be moral and should not be taught as positive laden values to school children.

Dear West

"religion is a political movement self justified by mythology"

...is too broad.

In the case of Islam it is true unquestionably. Hence their prophets clear call for the death penalty for apostacy. This is a 'state' action. He was the founder of the first Islamic 'state'. Islam cannot be understood apart from the concept of 'State'. So, its not so much 'mythology' which supports this idea, it is the outright declaration of fundamental principle.

Such is not the case with Christ. Jesus never founded a State, or a government, he came to impart grace and truth, and was the One through whom we can experience the kingdom (riegn) of God in our hearts.

Now..lets address your other concern about Jesus being 'bigoted'.

Believe it or not, you are probably the ONLY person on OLO I've ever seen directly attacking Jesus. Most attack 'me' or 'Christians' or 'The Church', but you... you attack Jesus.

In a way its refreshing. Because it means you fully understand that when a person is faced with the claims of Christ, there is a choice to be made. Where you 'err' is twofold.

1) You seem to feel that to be Christian automatically translates to 'persecuting non Christians'. The worst I see evangelists commanded to do is 'shake off the dust of your feet' against a town to which the gospel has been proclaimed and signs done, yet it rejects Christ. I hardly think that is 'persecution'.

There is no need or reason to 'persecute' anyone who rejects Christ.
Historically it has happened for political reasons, when the State regarded 'unorthodox' beliefs/traditions as a political threat. Lets be clear, that is POLITICAL persecution, not religious. European 'religious wars' were based on the political nature of 'The Church' and this is foreign to the New Testament.

2) You miss the point that Jesus showed his divine credentials by
-Healing the sick (including blind from birth and crippled)
-Releasing people from demonic influence
-Raising the dead
-Calming the Storm
-Walking on water

You might like to call Him "Bigoted" but that, as always, is your choice.

Boaz,
Recognise West acts with the same exclusive level of bigotry as he claims Christians exercise - 'his way is the best' and Christ's way is detrimental to humanity. It is easy for him to mouth words of criticism, let him define a society that fulfils his social agenda and let us see if it discriminates - especilally against Christians.

Bertrand Russell in his book 'Why I am not a Christian' is at least honest enough to acknowledge teaching the morality of the New Testament to children builds character and social values not acquired by any other means.