A nice benign overview of our post-gender-war world but it isn't that cosy for everyone. You say "Most men and women live together, as they did a hundred years ago" but that simply isn't true. 30+% of Australian women will never marry or have children, so I suppose a similar percentage of men won't either. 50% of the children in my daughter's class at school live in single-parent households. The 'masculinity in crisis' hype misses the point that feminism was predominantly about financial independence for women and resulted in the biggest shift in wealth and inflence in modern history. The real untold story is about the countless men who lost out as the jobs changed from full-time blue collar to part-time jobs for women. A man without a job is as useless as tits on a bull, as they say. There are numerous boarding houses full of these rejects living in rooms smaller than prison cells spread throughout all the poorer suburbs of cities.
Women still want to 'marry up' despite the new underclass of unemployed males who are left to rot while women (as a class) still benefit from affirmative action programmes.

Being a sperm donor and pay packet. I definitely would not recommend for any bloke to become a father.

If I knew what I know now about what life was going to be like being a sperm donor and pay packet I definitely would not have had any children.

I feel like I am living in a totalitarian state, with big brother watching my every move.

CSA is like Stalins KGB, where citizen's have to justify every thing they do.

Believe me fella's if you aren't a father yet, then avoid it like the plague, because life aint worth much after they start chasing you for the sex tax otherwise known as child support, when sex results in pregnancy it becomes extremely expensive.

Pseudo-Masculinity is over-rated, would people, especially academics and women, please stop lecturing on masculinity.

Peter West wrote:

If men are to move forward, they might try doing these things:

Speak up. Women can’t hear what men don’t say.
Have some ideas about feminism, and get them out there.
Learn to relate more effectively to other men. We have raised boys to be competitive, but it doesn’t always work. Men have to learn the art of compromise.
If men can listen, they function more effectively in relationships and at work. We must keep trying hard to be good listeners. Isn’t it hard work!
We have to express our feelings for loved ones. We don’t need another generation of emotionally frozen men who won’t hug their kids and partners.
Men have to take charge of their own health needs, what they eat, what exercise they do, seeking out doctors that are good for them.

What the fark!

Who says that men have to 'move forward'? Real masculinity is telling the so called gender experts to get stuft.

If I want to live an unhealthy lifestyle and 'die early', so be it, I hate muesli, and always will.

Why should I listen to women, they speak a different language anyway, why should I try to become an imitation woman? Who says relationships have to 'work' in this way? Who declared women to be the experts in relationships?

Compromise? The only real thing that matters is success: women's definition of compromise is for them to get what they want and think that men actually agree(most of the time they don't).

Real masculinity? Times to oneself, in reflection - a shed / study / garage, using your hands to build something. Sometimes men a bit to much to drink. Men don't take themselves too seriously.

Remembering that women talk face to face, men talk shoulder to shoulder, whilst doing something important like watching a Rugby test match, or fixing a car.

Leave women to talk to women, men only pretend to understand them anyway, and that is only to get more sex.

I tend to agree there is no crisis in masculinity - but only as long as men remain outside the jurisdiction of Family Law and CSA. No doubt, men will generally adapt to the brave new world of 1984, but not necessarily in ways intended by the social engineers, nor ways that are best for their children, or the wider society.

As long as they are alienated as fathers and treated with contempt as equal parents, they are unlikely to rush to marriage in the same numbers. They will increasingly weigh up the real costs against the perceived benefits, and either accept or reject such rules of engagement and terms of reproduction.

If this is the kind of society we are aiming to build – one that actively discourages traditional family – we are doing a fine job.

An excellent, insightful essay, Dr West.

I have always maintained that the worst mistake made by the feminist movement was to presume that women could build their self-esteem by belittling the self-esteem of men.

Many men are now feeling the pinch from that faulty strategy, which does no service to either sex. In reality, negative behaviours exhibited by both men and women stem from low self-esteem. They just manifest it in different ways.

That said, much social enrichment has been gained by both genders during the past 30 years. Some men and women are having trouble adapting to the new reality, and it is difficult for men to cope with being less dominant, when arguably the human species is innately patriarchally dominant.

That is the unstated subtext behind many male complaints nowadays, but, as Dr West suggests, we are still learning to adapt to the new politics of gender. I think the pendulum may swing back a little where it has caused provocation unnecessarily .

Meanwhile the smugness of many feminists seems to have largely dissolved, with women finding out that engaging in traditional masculine domains, such as politics, is not as easy as it was once presumed.

An interesting range of comments - most a tad cynical, but I suppose that's the order of the day.

I agree with some of what Hamlet is saying, though I can't go as far as to say women are completely unfathomable and men should just give up. They're only unfathomable about.... 23 per cent of the time.

What has really slain old style masculinity is political correctness.

I can recall recently visiting Brisbane with a friend from out bush - we met up with some other city friends, and I was pretty sure all would be well.

Of course, things went a little haywire when he exclaimed at one point: "bugger me! That chick's tits are on display!"
(Yeah, some people actually do still speak like that... even in their early 30s)

If looks could kill. The women nearby gave him the dirtiest look I've seen outside of war movies, and I received a reflected dose when I collapsed in a fit of mirth at the pure absurdity of the setting.

While the vernacular was a bit rough, his observation was accurate.

I'm not sure which of those two things pissed them off more. I suppose I was supposed to be suitably outraged as well. Oops. I'll have to try harder next time.

When I was a young fellow, I helped a mature lady neighbor horse breeder occasionally.
One day I helped her put a mare, in season, in with a stallion. As we watched to make sure that there was no trouble with them, the mare was all over the stallion.
While watching she said,"now see that, once she's in foal, she'll kick the sh#t out of him, if he comes near her." "We women are just like her". "If you want to get on with us, don't give us what we think we want". "We realy only want one thing from you blokes, babies".
Unfortunately, I was in my late 30s before I remembered that advice.

The article rang hollow. Reading it you would never think that there are thousands of men out there who would top themselves today given the chance and some will do just that.

Why don't boys and youth get a mention? There are thousands of Australian boys on MSN chat right now talking about how they are cutting themselves up with glass and razors through hopelessness with life.

Maybe it was all too hard and the author sought refuge in trying to define men and masculinity from a feminist perspective. Maybe Australian universities are chockers with and stultified by, feminist theory.

Maybe (and I believe this) the truth and the eventual solutions can only come from the grassroots. The intellectual elite did not serve women very well and men should be very wary of being led by the similar academics, long on theory and idealism and short on life experience and ethics.
Peter West you need to come to some mens' groups and hear the sharing of life experience. There is agony out there and it was not just caused by feminism, it was there all along and it needs to be addressed.

And no, the 'problems' is not as trite as being deficient in skills to get along with women. While you are at that you might casually note that there are bugger all resources available for men and boys who are in need of help.

I cannot believe that Peter West lives in the same country as Biddulph and others. Have a chat with them please and urgently. What about some feedback from men? Sheez, Peter you would get better information just sitting around the campfire at a camping ground.

Some of the people commenting on this seem not to have read the article properly.

They just bring their own beefs and grizzles along. Mention "gender" and everyone seems to snarl and bristle these days. Nobody is satisfied, I guess. Maybe people were happier in years gone by. Or maybe they just got on with it.

A medieval fable talks about a knight who is sent on a very difficult quest.
The riddle is "What do women want?"

After many many years, after killing a dragon, hunting a wild boar, and finding the secret pathway, an old crone tells him the answer.

What do women want? Their own way.

Alas … after 40 years of research up to the 70s Peter West seems to be somewhat out of touch with the men issues in the ‘Naughties’ – contemporary male concerns can be much more likened to basic survival in a totalitarian state.

I have to agree with Hamlet – “who says men have to move forward?!!”, yet I would word my defiance differently – Peter's dialogue, although diplomatically worded leans towards a deficiency model of men that reflects gender discrimination – the type taught and adored by feminists separatists.

Don’t blame me Peter for my comment – you stated that men need to “have some ideas about feminism, and get them out there”. The trouble is, if and when real men speak up, feminists, popular culture, and media etc ban (shout down, omit, threaten) dialogue that is not feminised! If we say what we think - the girls won't like it.

An example at the street level -I have had dialogue with men about male emanicipation who have said, in hushed wispers, that they agree with what I say, yet if they dare voice it they would never get another date - sexploitation silences week men.

We have no right to a voice, yet your words endorse the popular rhetoric that men cannot communicate. Your particular version of this propaganda is common to men ‘experts’ that subscribe obediently to the deficiency model pushed by junk science Feminism – now established language across all strata of society, social theorists, health workers, and off course the mob rule language on the streets of ‘girl talk’. All with little critical analysis.

Seeker echoes my thought exactly - there is no crisis in masculinity, but there is oppression of Fathers and Family; and real men (and real women) must fight to resist.

Silversurfer, I have to agree with what you are saying.

When the girls do not like hearing what men are saying, all sorts of things get thrown at them such as "hating women", "wanting to return to patriachal mode" (if that model ever really existed?)

Mens rights and fathers rights groups get accussed of wanting to turn back history or are as Trish Wilson maintains "The fathers's(sic) rights movement seeks to destroy the legal protections of women and children, primarily custodial mothers."

Neil Lyndon who wrote an article around a decade ago had been accused of having a small penis, as well as other things. Interestingly Neils ex was given custody of their son. If she had been a man the court would not have allowed her to have any contact with him.

I think Thomas Ellis in his book "The Rantings of a Single Male" sums it up reasonably well;
"I’ve got years of feminism, political correctness, and male-bashing clogging my arteries. So do most men, though they pretend not to notice. I wasn’t aware of the extent of the damage until I began some serious self-examination."

"Women react angrily to any criticism, and they can stay angry a long, long time, holding out for that male apology. Lots of women now automatically disregard any male viewpoints, since they believe criticism of women is a form of verbal abuse. They will rip apart a relationship if they are offended, even if they are wrong. Women are in really deep."

"When I began writing, I was concerned that I would upset female readers. I got over it. What is so abhorrent about offending women? They take full liberty in offending us."

Point well taken JamesH - What is so abhorrent about offending women?

These are the type of questions that lead to male emancipation from 40 years of feminist conditioning. When single I pursued emancipation with a passion and workshopped my own freedom – never looked back. There are many illusions that are a big con and a few simple steps reveal their slim hold on our psyche :-)

Challenge yourself with these amazing experiences:

Identify the absurd compulsion to please women. Refuse to please women! – they’ll be much happier if you don’t pander to their whims.

Speak up about Men’s rights. Jettison any restraint base on the need to please. You don’t need anything from them, and more importantly, if you can’t speak openly, they have nothing of value to give you.

End sexploitation. Deny women sex! - I found this really enjoyable in a town where women outnumbered men 3 to 1. You’ll find that you have a lot more self control than they have.

Enjoy trans-national internet dating, preferably Asian. Refuse to date Ozi girls.

Go dancing and avoid the women who try to use dance as a mating ritual – just enjoy the music.

Never chase. Given that there are 350,000 more single women than single men in Australia, it is an illusion to think that you have to chase them. If you like to chase, expect to be sexploited.

Identify and expel any compulsion to look at women. When girls strut their stuff, cross to the other side of the street and avert your eyes. Your gaze feeds them the power to enslave you. Taste the freedom!!

These exercises, and more, can be very revealing and can become addictive. Don’t stop until you are a free man. Unfortunately this will make you more attractive.

Masculinity in crisis? Only if the male population is too lilly-livered to stand their ground and stick to their guns (figuratively speaking of course). As a woman I get bombarded with messages on a daily basis telling me that I am not good enough (not smart enough, not pretty enough, not slim enough, not caring enough, not feminine enough, not tough enough - the list is endless). If I choose to listen to them, and suffer poor self-esteem as a result, then that's my loss. I say the same to all the men out there, particularly those that have posted whinging messages so far. Stop being such cry-babies! If you are worried about the messages that women are sending to men, then stop listening. Do what YOU want to. Of course you will probably need to come to some compromise from time to time - most of us do in order to get along in society, but you dont need to compromise how you think. There are plenty of men out there that are still unapologetic sexist pigs - I dont like them and they dont like me. Generally though, they can do as they please, socialise with like-minded people and think whatever they like. They, like everyone else, simply need to modify their behaviour from time to time to fit in with the social setting that they are in. Apart from that, who cares!

Silversurfer, what's the name of that town?

Country Gal

Read what's being said above you. When man bashing has been institutionalised then it's hard to fight and both genders suffer.

Great idea silver surfer, just like you to know that at the largely female patrons of a health resort that I work at are feeling the pain and the younger generation is taking notice.

I find it unusual that based on Lathamsmost recent and wacky assertions that masculinity is some how in crisis it generates a response - it is as if his opinion carries more weight than the bloke who cuts my hair.

Lathams went on - at least in the a piece in the Age I read - to bemoan the loss of terms such as dinky di , ridgy didge and fair dinkum -,

Now I am older than Latham but not by much - and like poor poor Mark, as he ALWAYS reminds us he grew up in Commission housing in poor circumstances- Well so did I and squillions of others and we certainly dont go banging on about it.

In addition my old man was an alcoholic, my mother suffered from bi polar disorder, I spent my child hood in visitors lounges of mental institutions - but still my parents instilled in me values god dammit - just like Marks mum did for him! I even went to university - 3 of them - But I NEVER EVER EVER saw or heard the terms dinky di- ridgy didge or fair dinkum used all that often to the point I thought they were vital to the nations interest. Maybe I read them in Ginger Meggs comics - but even then they were dated.

I mean, this has bugger all to do with the topic I know, but lets relegate Mark to the dust bin of history along with David Flint and it seems sadly Margaret Whitlam. And as for masculinity - I'd rather be a person first

CITIZEN SAID:
"A man without a job is as useless as tits on a bull" to which I say 7fold AMEN!

GECKO SAID:
I have always maintained that the worst mistake made by the feminist movement was to presume that women could build their self-esteem by belittling the self-esteem of men.

For a change I totally agree with the lizardy one.

SEE this link for an account of how loss of male self esteem DESTROYED A WHOLE CULTURE !
http://www.anthroprof.org/documents/Docs102/102articles/steelAxes.pdf#search=%22lauriston%20sharp%20steel%20axes%22

We are DYING and we don't even know it. Because it is happening slowwwwwwly. Like the diseases smokers will get... it doesn't happen over night, but as sure as night follows day... it WILL happen.

We open a door for a female, and are told not be chauvenist ?
We give up our seat for a female... and we are looked at weird.
We walk on the 'road' side of the pavement with our female friend (so we cop the splashes not them)
We love to be told 'ooh.. strong man' when we shift something very heavy.
We expend ourselves and spill our guts on the battle field, in gut wrenching hand to hand combat and are told 'women can do this also' when we know they cannot.

Take away the social ques, the signals by which we define ourselves, and you destroy 'us'.

I totally support the idea of female access to independance, education, and I'd rather be a tit on a cow than on a bull, having purpose and useful function. But I'd encourage females to seek their independance in creative ways, preferably from a home based environment (those who marry mainly) opening up many more opportunities for 'bull tits' to take their needed and rightful place.
Not to mention the other outcome of lower housing prices, which quickly ROCKETED as most families became dual income, wiping out the temporary financial advantage of both working. Now we have TWO stressed and tired parents at the end of the day rather than one.

Posing the question "Is masculinity in Crisis" avoids the real issue of whether men (and that includes boys and youths) are being well served by and are satisfied with, the masculinity that presently exists in Australia.

There are also issues surrounding limitations, especially structural ones, that mitigate against boys, youths and men having meaningful lives in our society.

Just consider one question: "Are men happy with the social mores, implied and otherwise, that cause men to be fragmented against one another, so that even the physical closeness that should exist between a father and his son, or brother and brother, is seen as odd and is frowned upon."

Another question: "Why is it wrong for men to have male refuges where they can share and care for one another, yet it is OK for women to have all women clubs and interest groups?"

To claim that men are 'cry babies' because they want to discuss their inhibited development and limitations is to go along with the cruel socialialisation of boys, where even an infant boy cannot cry lest he show weakness (and it is mum and women who chastise him for it).

What is wrong with men that they haven't leapt forward to ask Peter West to define, describe and defend the 'masculinity' he seems to be in favour of - one defined through (wrong) feminist notions of men.

Before anyone frvolously suggests I am arguing for a return to the male only bars of yesteryear, of course I am not.

Boaz and to any one else - A man with out a job is still a man - if work were its own reward we would all work for nothing.

I am not defined - at least by myself - by what I work at - we all know eminent people who might otherwise be defined by their job and who would be ,under those terms, highly thought of but in reality are low life scum bags - both men and women - some of work to live not live to work.

and as for the litany of social ques - I disagree - as folows

We open a door for a female, and are told not be chauvenist ? Still do it and dont care what any one thinks - I even do it for manly men

We give up our seat for a female... and we are looked at weird - as above - I can stand for bloody ages and it makes no ddfference to me who sits

We walk on the 'road' side of the pavement with our female friend (so we cop the splashes not them) still do it

We love to be told 'ooh.. strong man' when we shift something very heavy. Dont care what they say

We expend ourselves and spill our guts on the battle field, in gut wrenching hand to hand combat and are told 'women can do this also' when we know they cannot. - yes they can and do -

Those things are social constructs. They are little more than banging some bitch over the head and dragging her arse back to the cave in their symbolism - that is what this clap trap about masculinity is all about - and those who miss the old ways - masculinity is testosterone laced code for - letting them know who is the boss.

As for letting the girlies blossom in home related enterprises - give me a break - the problem with letting women into board rooms andpolitics and other positions of power is that most of them emulate MEN

Sneeky...

"Social Constructs"... amen brutha.. exACTLY !

That's my point. 'Social Constructs'=Culture.

The specific examples I gave are not really that accurate, just a means to an end to discuss....

But the key point is......those social constructs.

We can easily 'say' a man without a job is still a man.. or course he is, but he may well "feel" useless, and that is the key to it.

For me, my personal experience has always been to define myself OUTside of our culture. I am what I am 'In Christ' so in once sense I and those who share my experience are possibly more robust than a non faith person. I say that because we know that whatever our circumstances, God does love us, and we believe He is working out our lives for His Glory. One closed door is another open one...'in Him'

But for those who are without living faith, who's whole identity is reliant on their cultural position.. just like the Yir Yuront, they are vulnerable, and many end up in tragic circumstances of homelessness and alcoholism.

I hope we can discover these things

Faith (in Christ)
Family (re-discover the extended family)
Friendship (do for others as we would have them do for us)

in that order, then we will have the final 'f'... a future :)

Men are what society has defined men to be. There is an isue of liberation and it is separate to, and cannot be examined through, feminism.

As I see it, this present thread has skated (skirted?!) around the issue of masculinity.

Men choke up and are at a loss for words when trying to discuss the hollowness and sense of futility that many experience in life. It is as though they are not used to talking about their own needs, drives and aspirations. They are automatons, with a self-limiting socialisation so hard-wired into their psyche that it is impossible to even contemplate thinking outside the square.

If men cannot address their own self-limiting beliefs, what hope is there for the many, many boys who are obviously suffering out there, discussing last evenings self-harm and thoughts of suicide?

The 'manginas' can contribute nothing to this debate and nor can the red-neck dinosaurs who are rooted in the fifties.

Cornflower, these men that you say suffer such a sense of futility etc, need to get off their collective backsides and DO something. It doesnt have to be something big - go and mow the lawn for gods sake. The less time sitting aruond thinking, the less chance to get depressed. You might call me uncaring and you might call me a redneck (just dont call me a dinosaur - I'm not old enough), but action is a great bandaid for mental pain. Of course its preferable to do something vaguely constructive otherwise you will tend to feel worse about yourself. Go and volunteer to unload donation bins for Vinnies or something. Something physical (being able to feel the strain on your body seems to be a better anitdote than straining your mind only), that helps either yourself or others, and that you'll feel good about looking back on. Those boys self-harming need a good kick up the backside, dragged out into the sunlight, throw out the Xbox and the TV, disconnect the computer and make them DO something. Everyone knows that teenagers (I assume this is the group you are talking about) are self-destructive creatures at the best of times. If you give them something to rebel against (ie you throwing out the Xbox), you'll goad them into caring. Short-term pain for long term gain.

So many of these people don't even know what they are talking about.
Latham was comparing the tough, maybe rough masculinity of yesterday with the very different world of today.

Surely any intelligent woman is a feminist, isn't she? Why wouldn't you support people who support your own sex?

As for the men, the bleatings of the so-called mens rights people are so pathetic you wouldn't give them a sick cockroach to look after.

Guys wake up to yourselves and look at where you are today. Up the creek, mainly. !

I don't get that impression of men's help groups. Have a look at the Men's Health and Wellbeing (Brisbane) site (I have no connection with it):

http://www.mhwaq.org.au/

This quote from the site is apt:

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain

Its not that complicated.

If your sexual biology is plumbed a particular way, then you are a man.

The rest of it is meaningless. DO whatever YOU want to DO to have the life YOU want. Just make sure to do something. If others want to join in and be part of it, they're most certainly welcome.

i have penis - does that make me a man?

It would be good if it were that simple and maybe not.

I found the (Australian) Manhood site a worthwhile read and I am wondering why it was not cited in Peter's article. Very practical I thought and illuminating to read about the lives of men, from the men themselves.

http://www.manhood.com.au/

There is no gender rant, but I guess that is the point.