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The Forum > Article Comments > Our narcissistic selves > Comments

Our narcissistic selves : Comments

By James Cumes, published 13/9/2006

We shouldn't use our perception of our Australian-ness to attack those who are different.

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"So it is healthy and “natural” for most of us to reinforce our conviction, sense or feeling of self-worth by joining with others in what might become orgies of never-ending communal self-aggrandisement. Those “others” are not really others, but are seen to be narcissistically compatible. They look like us; they speak our language; they share our emotions; they think our thoughts; in empathetic guise, they eat our food and drink our wine. They are “us”."

i find this an interesting conception, of which this forum provides many examples, primarily in the evocation of various amorphous entities such as 'the silent majority' or 'aussie values', or even the overly optimistic appeal to 'general decency'. the need for validation of an individuals reality leads to the fairly audacious claims that numerous others, whom the individual has never met, agree with their opinion.

as often happens on this site, the detractors do their best to confirm the points of the article. Mickijo immediately cries 'anti oz', when what they really mean is that the article is against their own conception of Australia. there is no real problem with this, we all are entitled to our own opinion. the problem arises when Mick transfers their own reality onto others, seen as 'narcissistically compatible', but are possibly not.

there are of course 'voting majority's, often sighted as confirming the 'value majority', however this is much more complex, the left/right generalisation of two party politics hides the fact that people vote for a party for completely different reasons, more related to the individual than any generalised position.
Posted by its not easy being, Wednesday, 13 September 2006 2:38:40 PM
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An aside on Nietzsche and God...

His thoughts on God were a lot more complex than most people realise, and he's usually only partially quoted on this subject. There are two points to make.

The first is that Nietzsche was all about will to power, and so he had respect for people who attained will to power, including Jesus and the early Christians (people who otherwise lacked will to power in the Roman world). His big problem, therefore, with modern Christianity was that it had become an orthodoxy that restricted will to power and was almost a parody of itself.

The second point is that Nietzsche was asking us (and indeed, himself) where we go if we reject a particular system. It's not enough to either collapse into nihilism or to simply replace one orthodoxy with another (which is why he goes on about the superman and man being something to overcome -- the whole scene with the tightrope walker illustrates this), which I suppose is the big problem for much of 20th century thought and the problems with political correctness and post-modernism. To be sure, there were big problems with the grand narratives of before, but in many ways, what replaced them has merely fallen into more of the same sorts of intellectual and cultural territorial jostling, defensiveness and rigidity, or else is complete goobledy gook that doesn't really say anything about anything.
Posted by shorbe, Wednesday, 13 September 2006 4:46:02 PM
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To the author

Thank you for an extremely well written and thought provoking article. I do not agree with all you have to say but even so, you have given me lots to think about.

I know that I am egocentric - just as all other people are egocentric.

Cheers
Posted by kalweb, Wednesday, 13 September 2006 4:52:23 PM
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I think there is a subtle difference between how we would like ourselves to be seen and how we really are.

We may like to believe the world sees us as "larrikins with a healthy disregard for authority" but this may not necessarily be the case.

There is as much egalitarianism, radicalism and any other sort of "ism" here than exists in any other country.

To say that "mateship" for example, is a somehow a uniquely special Australian trait seems to devalue the words buddy, pal, comrade, mon ami and all other derivations of the same universal concept.

To keep on implying that we hold some things in higher regard than other nations tends to make us look a little insecure about ourselves as well as seeming to fear those who choose to come here.

Of course the same principles would conversely apply to other nations who hold their own sense of values but it seems to be more of an issue in this country.

We need to feel - not as good as - but slightly better than everybody else. I suppose that's what tribalism is all about.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 13 September 2006 4:58:17 PM
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Unfortunately, this article is wasted on the people who most need to understand it, because by definition, narcissists are incapable of seeing the flaws in their own nature. They can always find somebody else to blame for their problems.

How nice it must be to go through life oblivious to one's faults and failings, surrounded by a bunch of like-minded goons vacuously chanting "Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi" or "Allah akbar"; and then, after the latest crusade or jihad has backfired, being able to sheet the blame home to <hate group x>.

Heck, narcissism has a lot going for it, when you put it like that.
Posted by Mercurius, Wednesday, 13 September 2006 6:00:56 PM
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If WORLD WAR 3 breaks out James Cumes and the line is drawn in the sand who is going to be standing on your side of the line? That’s when we’ll see who our true friends are. That’s why we need tribes around us, to help defend us if we are attacked .

If Suddam Hussein had gassed the Sunnis en masse instead of the Kurds he wouldn’t have been leader of Iraq for very long. He would have been overrun very swiftly by the Shiites. That’s why dictators although they may be cruel seldom commit annilation of their own tribe. It’s called survival.

Although I agree with some things you say I think you are confusing narcissism with tribalism. We are programmed by nature to be tribal to help us survive. That’s why the whole community pitches in after a disaster because while the community is disorganized and weak it makes the whole community vunerable to attack by an outside force and we also need a community around us to provide us with services, like food and electricity and shelter to survive.

Nature gave mankind tribal instincts unfortunately a lot of academics think they are calling the shots and not nature. That’s because they’ve got their heads stuck too far up in the intellectual eather. They need to come down to the biological level where life is really being played out and realize that nature IS calling the shots on this planet . No man can stand in front of a Sunami and no man can take the tribal Instinct out of man.

Third and fourth generation immigrants still march in the streets when anything threatens their tribes in the old country but they don’t show such tribal loyalty when the Australians are killed in Bali.
Posted by sharkfin, Thursday, 14 September 2006 1:20:23 AM
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