billie, What about the tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq that have been killed - do they make a conscious choice? if you value life then you cant accept that along with arguing against stem-cell research.

I think the argument is more about justifying the means to an end. If you accept that the means justified the end in Iraq then you must also accept the same argument for stem-cell research.

Whoops - I meant Daniel06 not billie.

Billie I never said Ben or anyone else was a pedofile. I simply compared the warped logic being used.

Billie if you were in fact correct then the whole stem cell/abortion etc debate would not even be an issue. No one would think twice about it. Why do you think it is such a big issue?

It is such a big issue because the scientific proof simply cannot be dismissed out of hand as you have.

The fact is science has never ever declared that an embryo is not human.

UN Declaration of Human Rights Article 2: Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, "BIRTH" or other status.

UN Declaration of Human Rights Article 3: Everyone has the right to "LIFE", liberty and security of person.

I would love to know which scientific evidence you base your sweeping claim to know that embryo's are neither human nor alive? What are they then? I can't draw any other conclusion that if something has human DNA and is alive then it can not be anything but a living human life by definition.

Simply lacking consious thought does not mean you are not human - people in comas have no conscious thought but are still human in every respect. Should we kill them also?

Clarification...

The embryo is indeed alive and is a homo sapien. Therefore it is a human being with potential, not just a potential human being. The embryo's own DNA clarifies the issue that it is not just another part of the mother.

The argument that nature spontaneously aborts 33% of embryoes does not mean we should. Did you know that 100% of adult humans eventually die? That doesn't mean we should kill them for scientific research.

I think stem cell research is a little more broad than the whole pro life/pro choice issue but I think the above points are still relevant.

And why has no one mentioned that NO CURE has been found through embryonic stem cell research but already over 70 have been through adult stem cells?

One more thing- this whole debate about an embryo needing "conscious thought" is a little ridiculous, it is little more than a secular attempt to define a "soul". Religious arguments that the embryo has a soul are discarded by the secular population, and I think, so should this "nonreligious" one.

YngUn

"And why has no one mentioned that NO CURE has been found through embryonic stem cell research but already over 70 have been through adult stem cells?"

Where is your evidence for this statement, apart from right to life websites who urge research into adult stem cells to ease there collective conciences.

Apart from hematopoietic stem cells transplants which have been researched for over 30 years and still have a 50% treatment related mortality rate, what other CURES are you waffling about.

Ozbib I liked your post but I think you could go further and argue that it is impossible to have a just war today given the destructivness of modern weapons. needless to say that nuclear weapons are immoral by their vary existence.