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The Forum > Article Comments > Flames of protest should be seen from more than one viewpoint > Comments

Flames of protest should be seen from more than one viewpoint : Comments

By Helen Irving, published 4/9/2006

To make flag-burning against the law would be to dilute the freedoms it represents.

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Suppose I shin up a flagpole, pull the fluttering cloth down and burn it. What patriot can be insulted when the flag I'm offended by is emblazoned with golden arches and flutters proudly alongside the Australian standard? How degrading that a commercial symbol is permitted concomitant exposure with our national flag.
Posted by Ginger Meg, Tuesday, 5 September 2006 7:02:15 AM
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It's better to wrap yourself in the Constitution and burn the flag than to wrap yourself in the flag and burn the Constitution.
Posted by wobbles, Tuesday, 5 September 2006 1:33:28 PM
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It is a deliberate insult to burn a nation's flag. You are 'throwing down the gauntlet' and if you are foreign to that nation, you are declaring war upon it.
If you reside in that nation, all privileges from it should be removed, as you should be.
And if you are a national, you should be charged with treason.
Posted by mickijo, Tuesday, 5 September 2006 3:17:21 PM
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Consider what we will lose if we make flag burning a crime?

It is a crime by the way if the particular flag belongs to someone else and you have stolen it, like the young man did after the Cronulla riots.

However, when we make flag burning a crime what comes next? Imprisonment for making fun of the national anthem? Exile for criticising our system of government, or even worse the government of the day?

Australia's flag is a symbol, it is not the country itself. While it is an important symbol it is still just a symbol. Who is hurt by the burning of the flag? Only those whose patriotism depends only on symbols and not on loyalty to the idea of Australia: an Australia where political dissent is a cornerstone of our democracy?

Or do we enter a new Askin era, where that notable 'patriot' told his chaffeur to "Run the bastards over" when confronted by demonstrators. An Australia where political free thought is suppressed as thoroughly as it is in North Korea or Iran?

While I would not like to see the flag burnt, I would prefer for people to have the right to burn it if they wish.
Posted by Hamlet, Tuesday, 5 September 2006 8:59:23 PM
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I remember being told, when I was a whipper snapper, that the troops in World War 1 became very clear about what they were fighting for. It was not for shibboleths, like King and Country. They were not about to fall for the flag. These things were mere symbols; they were not to be confused with the thing symbolised; and they had none of the significance of what they symbolised. The RSL leaders do not seem to have learnt these things from returned soldiers like those that I knew.

If flags have come to hold all the significance that some of you attribute to them, then I think we would be better off without them. It is essentially irrational to think that they matter all that much.

There is talk about what the Australian flag stands for. How is that decided? How do you know what it is a symbol of? It's got a Union Jack in the corner; so is that important? (Some think so.) So does that symbolise the long struggle for democracy, for freedom from arbitrary arrest and punishment, for the rule of law and for the rule of the people through the supremacy of parliament? Or does it merely symbolise the union of three countries under a single monarch? Does the blue stand for loyalty and the white for purity? (I forget what the red was supposed to be for.) Is it important that the cross of St. George is more prominent than that of St. Andrew
Posted by ozbib, Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:10:14 AM
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We could argue, I suppose, that the flag means what those who chose it intended. That would make it very odd to attribute great importance to it. It would be odd, for example, to attribute profound signficance to the inclusion of the Federation star. (Let me try. "It stands for mateship, for communality, for that unity in mutual suppport and generous commitment to others that lies at our nation's heart." See, it is easy. It is also nonsense.)

So how do you know what the flag stands for? How do you decide? It looks as though people want it to stand for what matters to them.

Burning the US flag was popular during the Vietnam war. Those who arged that the war was unjust were branded as unamerican, as unpatriotic, and sometimes as traitors. The Stars and Stripes was waved by supporters of the war, in deliberate symbolism of what they stood for. Burning it was thus a forceful rejection of their views. It was quite clear what was being done, and it was thoroughly justified.

Because it is not clear what the Australian flag stands for, it is not clear what someone who burns it is protesting against. It is as significant as the person who wears it on the seat of his trousers.

Let's just be distinctive, and have no flag. It does no good having it, and quite a lot of harm.
Posted by ozbib, Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:10:49 AM
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