The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Fuzzy thinking on religion > Comments

Fuzzy thinking on religion : Comments

By Bill Muehlenberg, published 24/8/2006

We are currently undergoing a grand social experiment to see what life is like when we reject God.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 11
  7. 12
  8. 13
  9. Page 14
  10. 15
  11. 16
  12. 17
  13. ...
  14. 23
  15. 24
  16. 25
  17. All
Hello Yabby
A reply to a couple of your "perhaps" comments.
Your suggestion that religion - perhaps - "makes you feel good".

I find, lots of authentic things make me feel good:
1. The view from the top of a well-climbed mountain.
2. A swim in the sea on a hot summer day.
3. My AFL team winning.
4. A nice glass of Cabernet Sauvignon with a spicy meal.
5. Intimate evenings with my wife.
6. Powerful acceleration on the airport runway.
7. Meeting old friends, and laughing uproariously.
8. A young child articulating a new word.

I could include, in that lot, your suggestion (though dynamic faith, is not: "religion").
The feel good list only partly concedes, then, your point:

9. Hearing the Word of life, from the Living God.

However, the 'feel good' aspect is not at all the prime reason for embracing Christ.
Rather, it is that, just as a fish is made for the sea, and a lion for the jungle, so a human being is made for eternal relationship with the Father, through the eternal Son.
The Holy Spirit, speaking to, and resonating within my spirit - has convinced me of that.

Further. The 'god of the gaps' is a dud concept, which I would never subscribe too, even if I were an atheist. Postulating a 'God' concept, in order to try to make sense of things, is a far cry from revelation. Though, I recognise that logic presses some in that direction.

As to your other "perhaps".
"Perhaps the Universe just is, with no purpose".
Is that what you believe?

(One little planet. Ideal climate. Ideal spin on the axis. Fascinating varieties of life. All ... with no purpose?)
If so, I might add to your possibilities: Perhaps not, too.

Sorry (but not surprised) to hear Sunday school teachers had nothing to emphasise other than Jesus died for "ME" (you), to make you feel guilty. Part of the reason for his death was to acquit the guilty. (Not to turn the heat up on kids).
Posted by tennyson's_one_far-off_divine_event, Monday, 28 August 2006 9:46:57 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The alchemist: Your theological understanding is zero, zilch as I see it. I do not much care if you have verbatim knowledge of 10 volumes written 600 years ago in ancient Swahili.
In the N/T Paul and other leaders gave followers eye witness accounts and Paul was a very scholarly person especially re the O/T. Yet with this first hand knowledge (perhaps your 300? old Greek versions had not been printed by that time :-))members fell away and/or disbelieved and began their own belief systems.
Nothing fits in with the Old or New Testaments or perhaps you do not recognise any that do fit in?
So Yahweh is mentioned in Egyptian scripts - so? Yahweh was around at that time - He is old you know.
I w/ship a science fiction story that turned into a religion in your opinion - fancy that now you are??
Those whose minds have manured err sorry matured and evolved - but evolution is totally unprovable except for certain types of people -Oh I see you are one with a manured, done it again sorry :-), matured mind and I am the unmatured or cretin thanks for that (no sleep for me tonight a manured minded humble scholar thinks I am wrong) regards, numbat
Posted by numbat, Monday, 28 August 2006 2:33:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There certainly has been a lot of fuzzy thinking on the issue - before any of you go extolling the virtues of religion, here's some simple ideas to take note of:

1. Why does there have to be any 'meaning of life'. Why can't the meaning of life just be to enjoy it?
(Simple, yes, but it works and you can dance to it).

2. Why does god have to be all knowing? Can't we have a god that makes mistakes? (everybody else seems to.)

3. Why is everyone so fussed about creation - by its very definition, we have no witnesses to say whether it is right or wrong.
So it's like arguing what happened at the kick off of a footy match no one saw. (my point is, most people would be content to know the results, and guess what - we do!)

4. Heaven and hell. We don't need mystical beyond reality versions, you can find both of them if you travel a little.

5. Why do no world religions mention dinosaurs? doesn't this hint that perhaps the authors don't know everything after all?
Even if it was a practical joke and dinosaurs weren't real, there are some damn big chicken bones lying around. You'd think they deserve a mention.

6. If jesus and mahommed met in Jerusalem today, do you think they would:

a) argue over their religions
b) engage in warfare and try to nuke each other
c) post in an online discussion forum
d) Go check out the dome of the rock via the whaling wall

or e) shake their heads in disgust at everyone shedding blood in their names and engage in a wise discussion about how it's not about what you believe, but what you do that counts.

Hope I've given you something to think about.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Monday, 28 August 2006 2:36:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
To me Pamela Bone should be ignored,her opinions are two for a penny,so as such,as far as religion is concerned,it is of no moral value,and theology has no room,for a secular opinion like hers,her closing words says it all
Posted by KAROOSON, Monday, 28 August 2006 3:03:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
More fuzzy thinking on religion!

Yes, it is true there are no examples in past history of societies maintaining moral life without religion, but that is because there are no examples of societies in the past that did not have a strong religious basis. So we can't compare past societies that had religion and past societies that didn't.

We would need to compare present societies that are more strongly religious (eg Iran, USA) with present societies that are less religious (many Western European countries). Do the people in the more religious countries behave more ethically than the people in the less religious countries??

Present societies are based more on innovation, and less on tradition. This is a profound discontinuity, and it affects everything.Even in more highly religious socieities it becomes difficult to stop people thinking for themselves, even about ethical matters.

Morality rests more than anything else on our fundamental innate sense of fairness, not on the commandments of gods.

Religon has been both a force for good (eg Evangelical campaign against slavery in 19thC England) and bad (Crusades, jihad etc).

The main problem though has not been with religion, per se, but with fundamentalism. The fundamentalists believe there is only one way, and everyone else is wrong. This is what leads to conflict.

Michael
Posted by Michael T, Monday, 28 August 2006 3:20:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Tenny, glad to hear that so many things make you feel good. Perhaps
thats why you do them, including dynamic faith in your life.

The human being in fact shares something like 99% of dna with
chimps and bonobos, just our brains are a bit larger, so we are
a bit smarter and a bit more anxious too. You might translate
that, that humans are made to worship some god, but that is simply
your translation.

You mention the "holy spirit" speaking to you as the basis of
your convictions. I am nervous about that stuff, as I am
aware that one Argentinian guy jumped into a lion's cage,
as he heard voices where god told him to, another guy in
Sweden shot a politician because he heard gods calling.

Normally these days, when people hear voices, as a % of the
population does, they are treated with anti psychotic drugs.

Regarding the universe, as a skeptic, why do I need to believe
anything? If there is a lack of evidence, perhaps best to
wait for more evidence, before jumping to conclusions.

Given that so many planets are out there, with nothing but
rocks, chances are that the odd one might in fact just
be suitable for organic molecules. Add molecules like
rna and dna, then mutations due to all the radiation and
hey presto, you have a myriad of lifeforms. Your god didn't
exactly rush things, if it took him 3.5 billion years to
get to this point.

If I look around me, I notice that religion is about geography.
If you had been born in Iraq, would you be a devout Muslim today?
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 28 August 2006 8:18:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 11
  7. 12
  8. 13
  9. Page 14
  10. 15
  11. 16
  12. 17
  13. ...
  14. 23
  15. 24
  16. 25
  17. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy