David,

I appreciate your measured response. However I see no connection between religion of any flavour, and "a 'responsible stewardship' approach to the environment, to economics, to social law our treatment of animals etc"

As a pantheist it pains me to see so much injustice, to both people and the environment, carried out in the name of religion, or by those professing a faith. From my perspective religion provides little more than self-justification, regardless of circumstances.

logic: Only the Bible can be proved correct. NO! Christianity does not teach that only those who believe in Christ go to Heaven, most of the churches might but the Bible doesn't.Those who have never heard the Gospel will make it as well as those who are at present opposed to Christianity.By the way there is no, that's no everlasting burning torturing hell either.
the alchemist:You do come out with some very very wide generalisations about those who according to you must have the "crutch?" of religion. Then you rather stupidly state "Those looking at the blank word of Yahweh are very frightened" - oh yes?
Also "Yahweh kills 'ALL?'who refuse to bow down to Him" - oh yes?
You very clearly show both your total ignorance of the Bible and of Yahweh.
Please don't make the mistake of seeing mainstream churches with their bells and smells, and their leaders in lace frocks as followers of Christ. Though I add that there are followers of Christ mingled with the congregations of such places. Your friend, numbat

"All the major blood-letting was the direct result, not of religion, but of anti-religion. Be it Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot, millions of people lost their lives in the name of atheism and secularism." says Bill who should now be sent to the diary room and questioned by little Keiran.

Tyrant dictators like Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, were not about democracy nor a secular democracy. Their teddy (god) came from an extreme ideology where in fact they themselves assumed the position of an omnipotent teddy ....... not unlike any such theocratic playpen. None were promoting atheism as such because their prime motivation, and include Hitler here, was political, nationalist and totalitarian. To associate atheism and freethought with such activity is as absurd as it is untrue, Bill.

In the case of both Hitler and Stalin there is strong evidence to say they were heavily influenced by religion and these influences would have shaped their attitudes and behaviour which in turn would have influenced their reaction to these powerful 'father' figures. People drilled in accepting, believing, in faith, and unthinking obedience to an all powerful 'teddy father' figure is all part of the same picture. e.g. "I swear by God this sacred oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to Adolf Hitler, the Führer of the German Reich ..... ."

A characteristic of these teddy infected types is an obvious and complete lack of imagination and belief in truth. Well atheism is grounded in truth because atheism is for those who transcend the facile whims of fashion trends and is forever the same concept. There is no extortion of your psyche here. Also, just seems that the more secular democracies all enjoy good social conditions never seen before in human history. In contrast no highly religious nation enjoys high levels of social health. In the US of A, for example, the most religious and strongly xtian states are a basket case with high homicide, juvenile and adult mortality, STD infections, abortion and teen pregnancy, and throw into the mix primitive gun laws and you see serious societal dysfunction.

alchemist

I was once a monotheist, (Jewish) now I just don't know. As an engineer with a sound backgound in science I see no evidence for or against the existance of a God. Belief in the Bible as a product of that God is something quite different.

Certainly the Jewish faith for over two thousand years has not relied on the literal text of the Bible believing in the necessity of interpretation. Thus "eye for an eye" is not taken to mean revenge and "stoning" does not mean chucking rocks at criminals until they are dead. (though it looked good in the "Life of Brian"). Such practices are completely forbidden by Jewish law.

On the vexed question of God's commandments in the Bible to destroy certain peoples, every time the Hebrews were instructed to do this they failed to comply. Perhaps there is a message in that.

As numbat has kindly explained Christianity also has to be correctly understood. All three monotheistic religions have been abused by each other and by evil people trying to justify their nasty ways.

I have always found deeply religious people (and I am not one) to be kind honest and decent. In contrast the extremists are fascists and I think the truth is that religion is a useful medium for tyrants and psycopaths to exploit the gullible. Can religion be truly blamed for that?

Numbat, my theological understanding and qualifications, allows me a verbatim knowledge of more than 5 historical versions of the Greek version of a book, written at least 300 years before the only copy ever found. The changes made to the original copy and the removal of many other chapters of the book, to support a required illusion. Definitely doesn't make it even half truth.

Reading the notations, placed by the different scribes writing the copies giving their reasons why they chose certain words, you understand what it really isn't. Those notations helped those reading the book to others, (99.9% of people were illiterate) to get the right emphasis on the story. Why would they do that, simple the copy was not accurate to the original book.

Add historical evidence for and against the veracity of the book and the former one it was written on, truth becomes very obvious. Chronologically and archaeologically nothing fits in either the old or new testaments, any evidence that may have supported the events in the bibles, occurred hundreds of years previous as recorded elsewhere.

Yahweh, is mentioned in Egyptian scripts, and the Veda, written thousand years before, as a war god, an evil element in life. Trekies are the fastest growing religion in the western world, in 100 years, it may be the biggest.

Numbat, you worship a science fiction story from 2000 years ago, like star trek, it slowly turned into a religion, and some people took advantage of its following. A good story, but not reality. No matter how good your heart is, if you follow an illusion, you become deluded into insecurity, confusion, psychopathy and finally, righteous war against those closet to you.

Those whose minds have evolved and matured, don't want your terror inspiring Yahweh and its destructive wars. We see none of you living the way the one you worship proposed, otherwise monotheism wouldn't be as despotic as it is, in expressive application

Dear Logic

regarding your issue on Buddhism etc.. do other religions have similar ideas.......

Some points please:

1/ Buddhism technically is more of a psychological self management program. The goal...is to set the self free from the suffering of this world. To attain 'total freedom' from all that causes suffering, which is listed in the Noble 8 fold way and the noble 4 fold 'truths'
See here for an outline :
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm
The main problem with Buddhism is this. It assumes a pre known definition of 'moral'. But I contend (as does Biblical Scripture)that without divine revelation, all morality is totally relative.

2/ Hinduism is quite different. "God (Brahma) is in all things but manifest in any form or shape He chooses." See here for info
http://hinduunity.org/basics.html
The Hindu concept of 'sin' is closer to the Old Testament and New testament. "Anything which takes us away from God"

I suggest Hinduism is a faint echo of true knowledge of God, which occurred during the extended dispersion of mankind after the flood and has become corrupted by the tendency of mankind to create images of God in the form of Idols. Evidence for this, is found in the Hindu 'flood' story where a man had 3 sons who then formed the new humanity after the destruction of the flood. Reminiscent of Noah.

The Self revelation of Yahweh, to Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc, was with one goal "Salvation of mankind.. restoration from our fallen condition through covenant relationship with Him"

Abrahams calling, was with the world in mind "and all the nations will be blessed through you" Gen 12:3

Finally the true and rich multi dimensional concept of 'Shalom' .. right relationship with God and man through repentance and forgiveness through faith in the Messianic work of Christ is the central truth and focus of both Old and New Testaments.