“Well, I don’t mind saying I blame the Hezbollah, their backers in Syria and Iran, and the United Nations.”

Hear, hear! The leftist, pro-terrorist fruitcakes will be rattling their cages in rage at this one. The Lebanese government is the only one he has left off the list, although he mentions Hezbollah members of that disgraceful government. The entire Lebanese government is the ‘enabler’ for terrorists.

Mr. Carey also puts to rest the nonsense of Hezollah's 'primitive' rockets put about by the anti-Semetic, anti-Israel mob

Joh,
Don't worry mate, the yanks have the largest stock of weapons of mass destruction, and they back Isreal to the hilt. When I went to school I was taught "thou shalt not kill" obviously an outdated philosophy.

Your right Leigh, consider my cage officially rattled.

The responses to this article are so utterly predictable, maybe OLO should move onto another issue, just for the time being.

work brings freedoom

I suppose Hezbollah should do the decent thing and march out to an empty paddock somewhere and wait for the Israeli Airforce to come and engage them in a fair fight.

Or perhaps they should just disarm and start a serious "letters to the Editor" media campaign and undertake some propaganda letter-box drops in Israel.

Why no mention of the myriad UN resolutions that Israel refuses to honor? Or their WMD programme?
Why the disinformation campaign in a lot of the Western media when more and significantly differing detail about the background is appearing in other (non-Muslim) countries?

This campaign seems to be nothing more than a deliberate softening up of public opinion to justify impending attacks on Syria and Iran.

After those two countries fall, the only ones left without a US controlled central banking system will be North Korea, Libya and the Sudan and the oil pipeline from Iraq to Israel (via Syria) can finally be reopened.

For someone who has been a military analyst for 30 years, this piece seems awfully simplistic and somewhat one sided.

"Hezbollah bad. Israel good".

Uh huh. I'm not saying the article is wrong per se - in many ways it is right in terms of the disgusting things Hezbollah is doing.

But to ignore the flaws on behalf of the Israelis does not do the situation any justice at all.

So Kofi Annan should just say what exactly? "Aw shucks, let Israel do their thing? What's the harm in a little bloodshed?"

SHONGA, Have you looked at John’s C/V. very impressive, so why is he pointing the bone
At poor old Kofi Annan? With all that Military Training & Obedience to your Great President/s, John, is it not, “Yours to do and die, & not to reason Why?”

Hezbollah, you inform us, is a Community within the larger community of Lebanon, we have similar organizations here in Australia, and many more in your country under the banner of religious organisations & clubs under a different banner. None use force directly, but many back weapons manufactures in indirect ways.

At http://corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13944 we read that “ Israel is to get U.S. Bunker
Buster Bombs! Question is, are these with or without Nuclear War Heads?
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html

Yes, I did post these references elsewhere this week, but on these forums one can be completely ignored in the rush to get ones own opinion across.

John, welcome to online forum, and I hope you are not deterred buy the ignorance of this writer of Military Matters, and Diplomacy. I often think the UN is a great waste of money.Your are right, if Nuclear weapons are used in this fray, not only those in the direct battle
Will suffer, the winds blow four ways, and mostly towards the East, thus spreading the fall out to India and further.

You are correct in bringing Kofi Annan to task, being the leader of our referee, the United Nations, perhaps he should resign, and letter a better fairer man/woman lead.

Israeli Defense Force HELPLINE

Suffering tragedy fatigue? Here's a little RELEVANT humour which I hope OLO will tolerate.

Its from Potfry a famous US media guru (and mate of mine) at http://potfry.blogspot.com :

Potfry has uncovered a transcript of the phone conversation between members of the doomed UN outpost in Lebanon and the Israeli Defense Force, as they desperately plead with them to stop bombing so closely.

IDF: “Hello, you’ve reached the Israeli Defense Force Helpline. All of our operators are busy helping other bombing targets. Please hold. Your call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.”

UNIFIL Employee: “Hello!?! SOMEONE?!”

(Music: Kylie's "I could be so lucky.."

UNIFIL Employee: “GOOD GOD, SOMEONE PICK UP! This is the UN calling. That last bomb was way too $%#(@ close!”

IDF: “Please continue to hold. Did you know that you can get most of your questions answered online? Just visit the IDF website and click on "Why are you bombing me?"

UNIFIL Employee: “FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELP! SOMEONE-“

IDF: “Hi, this is Hanah. How can I help you?”

UNIFIL Employee: “Oh, thank God! I’m calling from the UN post near the border. The bombs are getting closer and closer. Please radio your planes and tell them we’re here.”

IDF: “OK, calm down. Did you say you were with the UN?”

UNIFIL Employee: “YES! We’re near the-“ (LOUD EXPLOSION)
“JESUS CHRIST! DID YOU HEAR THAT!”

IDF: “I did. Is that your TV? You should turn it down-”

UNIFIL Employee: “IT’S NOT MY GOD DAMN TV YOU ZIONIST IDIOT. THAT’S YOUR GOD FORSAKEN WAR PLANES BOMBING THE &$(# OUT OF US!”

IDF: “OK. I’ll see what I can do. But first, a couple questions.”

UNIFIL Employee: “What?”

(continued below)

Second Part (from above)

IDF: “How long has UNIFIL been in Lebanon?”

UNIFIL Employee: “Huh? I have no idea. Why are you-“ (LOUD EXPLOSION)
HOLY %&#$ WHAT THE-“

IDF: “The correct answer is 28 years.”

UNIFIL Outpost: “YOUR #$&# MOTHER $%%# GOATS YOU $#&# JEWISH $&#$ GIVE ME SOMEONE WHO CAN HELP-“

(EXPLOSION)

UNIFIL Outpost: 'ARRGGH, IT BURNS OK, OK 28 YEARS.”

IDF: “That’s much better. Are you ready for Question 2?”

UNIFIL EMPLOYEE: “Look, you sound like a reasonable woman. Please. I’m worried about-" (EXPLOSION)

“SWEET JESUS OK, OK, QUESTION 2.”

IDF: “In those 28 years, how many times has UNIFIL prohibited Hezbollah from crossing over into Israel to meance Israelis?”

UNIFIL Outpost: “UH. UM. TWICE?”

IDF: “Wrong answer.”

(EXPLOSION)

UNIFIL OUTPOST: “HOLY #$@& PIERRE YOU ARE ON FIRE DROP AND ROLL”

IDF: “The correct answer is never.”

UNIFIL OUTPOST: “KOFI ANNAN IS GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THIS WE ARE PROTECTED BY UN CHARTER. YOU CAN’T DO THIS”

IDF: “Hold on….My pilot is asking if you are the building with the large UN painted on the outside.”

UNIFIL OUTPOST: “YES YES YES THAT’S US SWEET MOTHER OF GOD, TELL HIM-“

IDF: “Yes, he sees you. Thanks for calling the IDF.”

UNIFIL OUTPOST: “Huh? Are we safe now? Can I-“

(EXPLOSION)

ENDS

Spooky Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

A few questions for John Lacey.

1. How many nations have used nuclear weapons?
2. How many nations have nuclear weapons and how many?
3. How many nations have used agent orange on an entire nation and continue to refuse to pay the bills for the destruction to the population?
4. How many nations used napalm and have now invented a nice new napalm that vaporises the pesky children and victims so they can't show the world what happened?
5. How many nations drop cluster bombs and food packages of the same colour from the same planes?
6. Which country conveniently forgets to mention that they veto every resolution against Israel even if it is sensible?
7. Which country houses 42% of the world's richest and most powerful Jewish people?
8. Which country has bombed, invaded or changed regimes of about 72 nations in the last 60 years?
9. Which country contains the newly named School of the Americas, the world's biggest terrorist training camp and has done since 1946?
10. Who lost in Vietnam, is losing in Iraq and bunked out of Afghanistan because it all got too hard?
11. Where is the evidence that the Lebanese militia are hiding in the civilians, we know the Israelis' do because they all have to do military service.
12. How come the only UN resolution you want to obey is the settlement of Israel when it was done by the US, UK, France and Germany out of the guilt for the holocaust?
13. Why are so many anglo countries now trying to pretend it was the arabs who committed the holocaust and allowing the Israeli's to steal from them, bomb them, torture them and persecute them?

Come on put up now John.

Marilyn,
I'll have a guess at the answer, the U.S.A, am I right?

Founder and former President of International Defence Consultants, Inc., John E.Carey works for U.S. national security objectives, military operations and homeland defence.

His own blogs words, I think it says it all.

Let me see Marilyn...
the answer to your question 6 is 'no country'

As a previous commenter said...there are UN resolutions against Israel, hence every resolution cannot have been vetoed

The answer to your question 10 is 'No country'. The US is still in Afghanistan. And Iraq is not being lost, except if you class having loony leftists wishing they lose count.

Question 11.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

Come on now Marilyn. Stop with the loony leftist wingnut routine. Join us in reality

Glorious Hezbollah, brave Hamas, hiding behind women and children.

Aren't they wonderful?

Aren't they admirable?

Aren't they splendid human beings?

In answer to Rache, no I don't think Hezbollah should "…march out to an empty paddock somewhere and wait for the Israeli Airforce to come and engage them in a fair fight."

I don't think Hezbollah should be engaging in a fight at all. It is not the army of Lebanon. It has no authority to launch an attack on a sovereign state from the territory of Lebanon. It has no authority to acquire an arsenal of offensive weapons - including over 10,000 missiles - and base them on Lebanese territory among Lebanese women and children.

But if, for their own murderous reasons, Hezbollah do want to start a fight they could build their bunkers away from civilian areas.

TurnRightThenLeft,

It's not a case of "Hezbollah bad. Israel good".

It's a case of murderous thugs against an imperfect democracy. Israel is not always "good." Neither is Australia.

But if we are going to be partisan, Israel is infinitely more deserving of our support than men who hide behind women and children. When you see those images of dead children being brought out of the rubble in Lebanon reflect on this:

They're dead because Hezbollah started a war that forces its opponent to target areas containing children.

What sort of people would place military equipment in areas where children play?

If you must assign blame at least give the lion's share of it to Hezbollah.

Marilyn

Keep it up. You are bringing out all the Israeli propagandists.
Watch them slink back to their verandah's once the US and the rest of the world demands Israel return to it's pre'67 borders and the armed civilians in the illegal and criminal West Bank settlements go on a rampage. Especially in that divided city of Jeruselem.

Mate they will go absolutely ballistic when the site of The Al Asqua mosque on Temple Mount remains in Palestinian territory. You only have to look at the talk of the likes of Boaz David to see that.

As for me being leftist. That's a joke I am liberal and many have called me extreme rightwing for my views on Islam. Those sorts of allegations and name calling highlight the rabidity of the claims of many of the Israeli mouthpieces.

According to the wonderfully thoughtful Marilyn Shepherd (post of 2:11:34 PM), there are "many anglo countries now trying to pretend it was the arabs who committed the holocaust ... "

Which Anglo countries are these, Marilyn? I've never heard anybody, anywhere suggest that it was the Arabs who committed the Holocaust, although, of course, Holocaust denial is alive and well in much of the Arab and Muslim world.

Also there is an interesting article at http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284514,00.html#n which reports from a Lebanese website the strong suggestion that Hezbollah (even typing their name fills me with revulsion) stage-managed the attack at Qana by placing a rocket launcher on the roof of the building and then brought invalid children inside. By using the rocket launcher they drew a desired Israeli response. Destroyed building, fifty or so people dead and opprobrium heaped upon Israel

Alan you are a nut case - I have that photo in the Sunday Mail in Adelaide and obviously you didn't notice the glaring stupidities in the story.

1. it was parked in a christian suburb and no christian suburbs of Beirut have been blown up, except for one water drilling truck.
2. The christian suburbanites have their own splendid militia - in this case the only flag was a Lebanese flag and not Hezbollah.
3. There have been no rockets or fire arms or anything else fired from Beirut into Israel, they simply don't have the weapons to reach that far. Chris Tinkler was suckered because he allowed himself to be, because of his own racism I presume.
I suggest people read the HUN's report by Pendlebury today.
4. The US have vetoed the implementation of every single resolution against Israel.

Now to the evil Hamas and Hezbollah. Geez, you folks don't have clue do you?

Both of these organisations do have a small armed wing and have never denied it. But their main thing is resisting Israeli occupation and neither existed before that occupation. Both also provide welfare services to hungry people, Hezbollah build hospitals and clinics.

I tell you what got and do some reading of reality then get back to me.

John,

That had to be the most irrelevant article on the Mid East I've ever read.

You're not writing for The Washington Post or New York Times here...perhaps you could enrol in a Mid East 101 course at your local night college.

Marilyn ,what do you prepose?Remove the US from the Middle East and disrupt 65% of the world's energy supplies.Then Japan could finish what they started 60 yrs ago when they feared for lack of energy.Maybe China should send a peace keeping force of 20 million and possess all the world's energy resources while we in the west can starve to death.

Without the US the world would be in total chaos.They are far from perfect,but are the best and fairest balance of power we have.Yes the Jews have too much influence and are arrogrant,however the alternatives are far more evil.

Marilyn you are as mad as a meat axe.The world is not that simple and you like many others had better learn on which side your bread is buttered.

Marylin,

I'm glad to hear that Hezbollah only has a "small" armed wing. That explains why they are "only" able to launch about a 100 rockets per day.

I shudder to think what they could do if their armed wing wasn't "small."

The 'loonie tune' changed again.

Olmet today told us they have destroyed the Hezbollah infrastructure but we're not to measure the success of the Israeli campaign by the number of Hezbollah rockets landing on Israel.

Well Baggar me! The reason the Israeli's, (Unless of course they've changed this with hindsight) initially gave for their invasion of Lebanon was to stop the rocket attacks on Israel. To achieve this the Israeli's were at each stage gunna

1. Destroy Hezbollah.
then they were gunna

2. Severely hurt Hezbollah.
then they were gunna

3. Create a Buffer Zone.
then they were gunna

4. Destroy Hezbollah infrastructure.

Not one of the above stated aims of the Israeli's have either been achieved or have resulted in the lessening of Hezbollah rocket attacks.

Yes they've destroyed Southern Lebanon, occupied a few kilometres of Lebanon, attacked the civilian infrastructure of Beirut and other parts of Lebanon, claimed to have killed 400 Hezbollah terrorists, and said they were sorry for the slaughter of more civilians than fighters.

Today Hezbollah rockets landed further into Israel than ever before.

I'd conclude I'd not be measuring the success of the Israeli invasion, as Olmet tells me, but I'd be measuring it's failure. That failure I'd measure not by the numbers of rockets but by the changes in the positions and aims of the Israel propaganda.

Just how stupid are these blokes. Their campaign has utterly failed and yet they want to escallate it on the ground. They are losing western support because of their already excessive use of force. And they try to say they are winning.

Odd way of winning unless of course your aim is a land grab!

Today Hezbollah has escallated the violence by using a previously unused type of rocket...one that has a range of at least 75 klms judging by the fact they landed in Central Israel and not the North as previous.

Why don't they all understand escalating the violence just leads to an escallation in violence. In todays situation nobody is winning
... least of all the civilains of either side.

Keith

Marilyn and Keith (Part 1)

Now that the truth is coming out and you are running out of excuses you are starting to throw mud.

Why can't you accept that there is an evil group at work? The pro-Israel group firstly is far from being all Jewish and secondly for the most part does not fling out the anti Muslim or anti Arab hatred that you throw at Jews.

In an interview shown on SBS before the Hamas vote a Palestinian women was saying that she hoped that Hamas would be defeated because she didn't wish to have to wear a Hijab. On an ABC program an Indonesian government official commented on the extremists saying we have to face this problem every day.

Before the war there were Nazi sympathisers and the pacifists who hated all killing (don't most of us). Where would you be now if the Nazis and the Japanese had won?

Now doubt you will dismiss the following comment as Zionist or US propoganda (funny how there is no such thing as Arab propoganda and how anything American must be wrong) but here they are.

Sheikh Nasrallah, leader of Hezbollah: " "We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable.The Jews love life, so that is what we shall take away from them. We are going to win because they love life and we love death."
--- Quoted by Jonathan Chait http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-chait23jul23,1,7691020.story

And I like Arab people. I fear but do not hate anyone who forces their views and lifestyles on others and who kills people in discos or in trains not because they are trying to defend themselves but because they detest their happiness and their lifestyle!

Part 2

and

Six days before he was killed by IDF fire, Canadian observer Major Paeta Hess-von Kruendener sent an email to his former commander at the Canadian army, in which he said that Hizbullah members were "running around in our positions" and using the post as a shield against Israeli attacks.

The soldier wrote that the IDF's strikes in the days before his death were "necessary" and made it clear that "this has not been deliberate targeting." The former commander, Major-General Lewis MacKenzie told of the letter in an interview to a Canadian radio show. (Ynet)

Couple of things - first - Arjay

It isn't a question of the US being 'the best and fairest we have'.
(I dispute that, but that's irrelevant in this case).
A peacekeeping force from a neutral nation, such as China as you so facetiously suggest, would be an improvement in an area such as the middle east, simply because the arab world does not have the same hatred for China that they have for the US. Have you ever been in an argument, and had someone you really dislike attempt to mediate?
It doesn't work. Anybody would be better for the task than the US.

Note here, that I am talking about the Israel/lebanon/syria crisis. In other middle-east situations, the 'peacekeeping' US/Coalition force is largely there to keep the oil flowing.

And Christine - technically, I don't disagree - if I was forced to support one, it would be Israel. But I'm not forced to support either, because both are in the wrong here.
Hezbollah has made aggressive overtures, but Israel has responded with altogether too much force. That is the gist of it, and at this stage, what is the appropriate level of force is what needs to be debated.

Isn't it funny how quickly equal opportunity is forgotten when the bombs start to fall. Although I agree with the going out of ones way to protect innocent children, I find it more than ammusing that equality of women is suddenly forgotten.

Marilyn, as far as Beirut is concerned, where do you think the C-802 anti-ship missile was fired from? The Isreali attacks, far from being carpet-bombing, are designed to destroy combatants and infrastructure required by Hezbollah, as well as stockpiles of munitions. Hezbollah can hide stockpiles in Beirut just as easy (if not easier) than on the border.

Marilyn, I always thought you were a loony leftist, not a moron.

Lets look at your defense of the photos.
1) The place where the military equipment and personnel have generally not been blown up and is a Christian neighbourhood.

Isn't it perfectly obvious why would Hezbollah want to hide amongst Christians in an area that hasn't been hit? Other than wanting to get Christians killed and avoid attacks that is.

2) No hezbollah flag.

Yep. those terrorists trying to blend into the civilian population would definitely fly a hezbollah flag. Duh...they're terrorists, not morons.

3) Hezbollah has rockets with a range of a little over 70 km (Farj-5 I think). But then, Israeli military equipment hasn't just stayed in Israel has it? nor has it been expected to. Unless you are militarily clueless, the placement of weapons in beirut does have strategic importance.

4) If the US vetoed every UN resolution against Israel, then how is it possible that 88 Security council resolutions have been passed against Israel.
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-the-un-resolutions-concerning-israel-and-palestine

Join reality Marilyn.

Surely there are many more countries that do worse human rights violations than Israel. Why would they be subject to 1/3 of ALL UN resolutions?

We should not blame Israel they are the point of the knife thrust towards the hearts of those people who happen to live in Countries with lots of oil, America/Israel have a agenda the Demolition of the Mosque in Jerusalem and take total control of the worlds oil supplies, so they must be the villains, who are fighting for freedom, freedom to dominate the region, to kick arses
Today think about the little children who are to be buried, think about the bastards who have the smoking gun that killed them, how many Australians are involved hundreds, why do we not arrest them we cant because they are Israeli,s as well, the Aussie Passport is for hiding behind, it also allows you to vote here in Australia, while every two years you plod off to Israel to learn how to use tools to butcher none Jews,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1835894,00.html

Maybe some of you people might believe this Jewish man about what is really happening here.

And you might like to read the transcript from the Israeli military man on the 7.30 report last night that showed they wanted to blow Lebanon back 20 years and that was February last year.

Now let's grow up. The Hezbollah would not ever be allowed into christian areas for heavens sake, no rockets have been fired from Beirut, all the shi'ite suburbs in Beirut have been blown to bits by Israel.

I don't believe this tripe. See what the Jewish man says about all of this. It could have been stopped in 2 days but Israel refused. And it was in the planning with Ariel Sharon.

Olmert is singing from the same deluded song book as Bush.

Now some of you just better ask yourselves why you believe arabs are so inhuman. They didn't commit the holocaust that was the Germans with the silent complicity of the rest of us.

I am not in the least bit loony, I have never been in the least bit loony and I object strongly to these constant personal attacks without substantial debate.

The HUN was had with that stupid photo and I don't believe all those little missiles are being flung into Israel when the damage is so tiny and the death toll so small.

Olmert's only goal was to smash the lives and structures of an entire portion of the Lebanese people. That is utterly illegal and is also the tactics the nazis used against the Jews not the tactics the Lebanese or Palestinians have used against the Israelis..

There is simply no balance - tell me how many people even bothered to find out that the arabs were not asked if they wanted the Jews yet they got them out of the guilt of the US, UK, France and Germany. Now give me a debate, not nonsense.
Do not forget ever that the same lunatic who brought us the invasion of Iraq is running the show and he was wrong on every issue.

Logic

You are a despicible bastard. not once have I denigrated the Jewish faith or Jews. Yet you accuse me of just that. Apologise or be damned as the liar you are.

Logic I am with Keith, you are despicable and a bastard. For heaven's sake calling a war wrong doesn't mean I hate Jews.

No Jew on the planet has ever harmed a hair on my head but neither have any of my arab, catholic or muslim friends because they understand up front that I am not interested in their religion only in them as people.

Why on earth is it allowed to be vile about communists, muslims, and all other minority groups but not say when Jewish people get it wrong?

The Israeli army have now conceded they were wrong in Qana but that still doesn't mean I hate Jews - it simply means I hate killing.

I don't know who logic really is but he/she should stop the cowardice of hiding behind pseudonyms - I dont'.

Hezbollah and Muslim nations need to shut their mouth when it comes to talking about human rights abuses. The islamic religion and culture is one big human rights violation.

Okay NoSoupForYou... dismiss the islamic nation as one big human rights violation - but I ask you this - why is it okay for the US to ignore the human rights violations of Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia is the breeding ground for islamic militants, yet we say nothing? why is this completely ignored?

Those who honestly believe these wars are wholly and solely fought on political, not economic grounds, appear to conveniently left out this part of the equation.

There is much more to this than an evil muslim empire soupboy. Nothing is ever that simple.

Mel Gibson got it right before he apologised, it seems ironic that a race of people who have gone through a hollacaust seem to perpertrate the same actions on their neighbours.

Marilyn

The following were your words.

"Which country houses 42% of the world's richest and most powerful Jewish people?"

What had that to do with the USA or the Lebanese - Israeli conflict. Sounds like under the belt nastiness to me.

Replace Jewish with Arab and you produce a statement that you will never hear from me.

Keith

"Keep it up. You are bringing out all the Israeli propagandists.
Watch them slink back to their verandah's once the US and the rest of the world demands Israel return to it's pre'67 borders and the armed civilians in the illegal and criminal West Bank settlements go on a rampage."

Taken in context are both of you surprised? And now you write to me "You are a despicible bastard."

Not the language that I and my friends and aquaintences ever use to strangers.

And quite frankly I am using a pseudonlm because;
Most of the others do.
I do not trust a lot of the contributers with my name and address

Kopi Annan should embrace Islam and fight against Israel.

He is a BSD, who allows hizbooolaaah but condemns Israel.

Hmm TurnRightThenLeft you actually just furthered my argument. Why does the US need to get involved in Saudi affairs. Let them deal with their own problems. But once again the issue arises. Any state that has a dominant religion of Islam is doomed for failure… Human rights abuses will occur on a grand scale.

Now I am not saying the US are not blameless. They have their own case to answer but why is it that Islamic nations can’t generally seem to function in a normal way…..

Really why do I care what happens to citizens of Saudi Arabia. If there government insists on persecuting their own people then I say we overthrown these Islamic states and institute a western style governance that respects the rule of law and rights of its citizens. Stop blaming or persecuting the western style of life… Whats the alternative socialist, non secular…. Mmmm me thinks not.

logic, how illogical of you, keep up the loony work.

'The pro-Israel group firstly is far from being all Jewish and secondly for the most part does not fling out the anti Muslim or anti Arab hatred that you throw at Jews.'

That was your accusation of anti-semitism.

You backed it up with the supposed following proof, my statement:

'Keith

"Keep it up. You are bringing out all the Israeli propagandists.
Watch them slink back to their verandah's once the US and the rest of the world demands Israel return to it's pre'67 borders and the armed civilians in the illegal and criminal West Bank settlements go on a rampage."'

Not one word about Jews there, mate.

Now why you haven't you the guts to withdraw and apologise for your unmigitated slur?

'"You are a despicible bastard."

Not the language that I and my friends and aquaintences ever use to strangers.'

It's use is appropriate in addressing proven liars and fools.

'And quite frankly I am using a pseudonlm because;
Most of the others do.
I do not trust a lot of the contributers with my name and address'

You're doing that only because you are indulge in cowardly attacks.

Alan,
You ask "there are many more countries that do worse human rights violations than Israel. Why would they be subject to 1/3 of ALL UN resolutions?"
I'd say that unlike most rogue states it's because Israel is both very powerful and has always enjoyed US backing.

On the subject of UN resolutions you missed a few. Here's a brief sample:

Year: Vetoed by United States:

1972 Condemns Israel for killing hundreds of people in Syria and Lebanon in air raids.
1973 Affirms the rights of the Palestinians and calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.
1979 Calls for the return of all inhabitants expelled by Israel.
1979 Offers assistance to the Palestinian people.
1980 Requests Israel to return displaced persons.
1980 Condemns Israeli human rights practices in occupied territories. 3 resolutions.
1980 Declaration of non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states.
1981 Condemns Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, human rights policies, and the bombing of Iraq. 18 resolutions.
1982 Condemns the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. 6 resolutions (1982 to 1983).
1982 Condemns the shooting of 11 Muslims at a shrine in Jerusalem by an Israeli soldier.
1982 Calls on Israel to withdraw from the Golan Heights occupied in 1967.
1984 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
1985 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
1985 Condemns Israel for using excessive force in the occupied territories.
1986 Condemns Israel for its actions against Lebanese civilians.
1986 Condemns Israel for sky-jacking a Libyan airliner.
1987 Calls on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions in its treatment of the Palestinians.
1987 Calls on Israel to stop deporting Palestinians.
1987 Condemns Israel for its actions in Lebanon. 2 resolutions.
1987 Calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
1988 Condemns Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories. 5 resolutions (1988 and 1989).
1995 Affirms that land in East Jerusalem annexed by Israel is occupied territory.
1997 Calls on Israel to cease building settlements in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories. 2 resolutions

Keith

“You are bringing out all the Israeli propagandists. Watch them slink back to their verandah's ....”.

Who are your Israeli propagandists? You are slinging mud with that intemperate language. Please forgive me if I interpreted wrongly that you meant Jews.

And you do not use your full name either. Mine is Peter. How do you do Keith.

And how have you proved that I am either a liar or a fool? I do not believe that I have ever made a personal attack on anyone in the Forum. If I have it was a mistake and I apologise.

bennie

Do you realise that the UN allows all member nations a vote regardless of how small they are?

Thus the Muslim nations, many of which are small have votes way out of proportion to their numbers. Hindus for example have a huge number of adherents but get only one vote because they mainly live in India one of the most populated nations in the world.

The Muslim nations regularly gang up together against Israel. Add to this the power of oil and we get support for all sorts of ridiculous resolutions. In Queensland that is what they call a gerrymander. The US uses its veto to countermand this abuse.

A question for Kofi Annan:

Was The UN set up by The USA Government for The USA Government?

Peter,

That was some freudian slip to equate Israelis with Jews.:-)

Such a comment could be intrepreted as lending great support to an argument, that was put on this forum, claiming Israel is a racist and Aparthate state.

By the by, your apology is accepted and you are forgiven.

Keith Kennelly

(I've used it before, when challenged.)

ps nice to meet you.

keith

I am glad that we are friends. My mistake and I am glad you do not dislike Jews.

By the way I am most unobservant and usually describe myself in the census as agnostic. Though more accurate would be agnostic with a leaning to Judaism. That is because of my upbringing in a liberal Jewish Australian family. I consider myself as an uncompromising Aussie and so did my parents and my grandmothers.

However I do have a soft spot for Israel. But one of my greatest ambitions is to travel the Middle East. To have a swim at Tel Aviv, wander again around the old city of Jerusalem, watch the mad "froomers" at the Western Wall, walk again though the wonderful Arab bazaar then pass through the Damascas Gate and take a bus to the fabled city of Damascus. Have coffee with the Arabs there and later travel to Beirut and sink my teeth into a delicious Kebab taking in the sounds and smells of the wonderful Arab culture. To hear their music and be reminded that this was once the great centre of Western thought.

I hope that it will be so again.

But that will take time and I cannot believe that destroying Israel will help. I am no fan of either Yasser Arafat or Ariel Sharon. Where might we have been without either of them?

Peter

We were never enemies only debaters. Fierce ones ...truly. Arafat was simply a common criminal and retarded the establishment of a fair Palestinian state.

You may think me comic, but I believe Hamas, as a leader in Government, may have (HAD TO) come to a much more moderate position and more importantly would put Palestinian interests ahead of their own...eventually. And that was something Arafat never did.

History shows that even the (Mainstream as opposed to the militant factions) PLO, changed it's position on Israel, over time. It bought most of the militants 'to heal' despite Arafat. I think Hamas will probably go down the same path with the diference being it actually cares for the Palestinian people.

Borders are going to be the issue and Hamas will probably be a smater and less self-interested partner in negotiations on those issues both in Gaza and the West Bank. Israel shouldn't fear Hamas, from a violent point of view, it should have great respect for their strength as a true seeker of peace...eventually.

One day you may be able to take your trip...it is not such a fantasy...and it may be sooner than you think.

regards

Keith

ps I too am mostly liberal in my attitudes. I'm also an immigrant and have a huge soft spot for the All Blacks.

You don't have to worry whether you're anti-Israeli but not anti-Semitic. Take this simple test:

1) Which army killed Jesus Christ? Who do you blame for the killing?

2) Hypotethetical question: if the Aussie military was defending a border, and a well armed militia attacked both Aussie soldiers and targeted and killed Aussie civilians, should the Australians go after
a) only the patrol that did the targeting
b) (noting that the militia has made it clear they want all Aussies gone or dead, and won't stop till that occurs) the entire militia arsenal and every launching apparatus for militia missiles
c) (noting that the militia represents the largest party in the area from which the attacks occurred) go after any and all armaments and command-and-control centers for the militia
or
d) assume the militia is actually representing the country and target the entire country.

If you think the Israelis are wrong in what they're doing, but you answered (b) or (c), you're a hypocritical anti-Semite, but haven't yet admitted it. If, in question (1), you blame the ancient Jews for the killing, and have no blame for the Romans who raped ancient Israel crucifying hundreds or thousands, you may come to your own conclusions about anything; you are easily brainwashed and logic won't help you.

Israel's existence at even the 1967 borders is anathema to millions. How would you react if you were in control of a government of a country millions wanted utterly destroyed no matter what you did?

I'd like to know what solutions people like Marilyn Sheppard and Shonga have for the Middle East?The US foreign policy has been a disaster supporting all manner of blood thirsty dictators for their own interest,however without the influence of the US since 1942 the world would be a calmity of ruthless dictators and Japanese would be the Australian national language.

The Middle East Marilyn has 65% of the world's oil,and holds our very existance in the palm of it's hand.If Iran and Saudi Arabia shut off supply,the world will be in total chaos in the form of war.You make no mention of Hezbollah overtly stating that they want to erase the State of Israel from the Middle Eastern map,nor do you acknowledge the intent of the Islamo-facists who want to impose their will on the entire planet.In London they conservatively estimate that 10% of the Muslim population agree or empathise with the bombings of their tube system and the recent attempts to bomb up to 10 planes bound for the US.

These Islam facists are the most base and retrograde culture ever to have walked the face of this planet,yet we have the left in our communities making excuses for them, using them as a tool to bring the present status quo asunder,no matter what the consequences.

There is no logical discourse with a philosophy that tells us to become a Muslim or I will murder you and your family.

We in the WEST have not only lost confidence in ourselves and the great civilisation we once had,we have have lost our grip on reality.

All cultures are not equal in terms of achievement and that is why so many have flocked to our shores.

Actually, world public rarely distinct UN-international meeting place with the UN system of professional bureaucrats supposed to execute UN-forum's decisions precisely.

This vogue UN dualism brings about over-exaggerated tales of the UN – a playground of well-connected privileged at the national levels from a third world mostly. Kofi is a mere product of the UN-hallways - a conformist for whom a bell rings, and practically, he is not in charge of any historical political decision-making but in capability to speed or slow bureaucratic UN procedures themselves.

Probably, while considering Hezbollah, it would be practical to think of then Australian international funding and aid spent with the best of intention on humanitarian local objects.