According to DEMOS (21 July 2006 2:11:39 PM post), Israel is a "rogue state". But aren't those Middle East states that systematically oppress the female half of their populations just as "rogue"? As for violent invasion, I do trust that you are also putting Turkey into this "rogue state" category. After all the Turkish people are very much "Johnny-come-latelies" in Asia Minor.

And as for the UN declaring Israel illegal and this same body overseeing the creation of a "secular state of Palestine, where citizens have equal rights, where Jews, Moslems and Christians can practise their religion freely, but no group has a special position in society" - this is a joke, right? Exactly how much freedom of religious expression exists in any other Middle East countries? Do you have Iran or Saudi Arabia in mind as templates for your brave new secular Palestine? The Sudan perhaps?

Antony

You're an unashamed lefty so we'll never agree on everything but your article was superbly written.

As Irfy said its harder to write against the grain than to merely go with a nationalist/religious flow.

While I suspect that US support for Israel is being matched by Arab oil money supporting 'Palestine' in an equilibrium of death Israel has to learn to practice restraint.

If Isreal's current machinations are part of a strategy to preempt or "win" a future nuclear war with Iran (or other nuclearised Muslim force) then a withdrawal of Israelis from the Middle East may be preferable for humanity.

We can cope - the Israelis can bring their desalination plants/knowledge to Australia to help fix the water shortage.

Early Zionist discussion of settling the Jewish people in Australia may be a preferable course to Israel's very presence steadily moving the Middle East into a regional nuclear war.

Current ownerniship of land even "an idea" isn't worth megadeath.

Pete
("Spooky Pete" on your blog)

According to the terrifying "Journey into Darkness" by Winton Higgins there is a message from Australia on the wall of the holocaust museum.

It is only 13 words that should sicken us all "as we have no racial problem, we are not desirous of importing one". Evian 1938 re Jewish refugees

In a recent High Court decision it was found that Jews don't have to seek refugee protection in Israel. What is the significance of all that you ask? Well it's like this. A Russian Jewish family flew to Australia to seek asylum from persecution as refugees. They were found to be refugees in fact but denied protection because they could have gone to Israel.

The High Court overturned that decision by DIMA and that family are now permanent residents of Australia as refugees from persecution as Jews in Russia.

I know I will once again be abused for dragging refugees into one of these forums but I feel sure most will understand the blatant hypocrisy of Australia's position.

As Justice Kirby noted - the very reason for the existence of the refugee convention was because of the holocaust that had the west murdering 6 million or so Jews in the name of the Aryan nation and murdering the money lenders.

Instead of taking cheap shots at Antony, use brains for a time then read the words of Paul McGeough in today's SMH as he decribes the scale of destruction wrought on the Lebanese people.

By the way I just found out tonight I have a young Lebanese friend trapped in Beirut - I trust no-one would suggest that she should not be rescued and I wish some would understand the ironic position of Australian's having to be boat people escaping the murderous rampage of one of our great friends.

Marilyn

Your words bear repeating:

"I wish some would understand the ironic position of Australian's having to be boat people escaping the murderous rampage of one of our great friends (Israel)."

I have heard some terrible words on the middle eastern threads. Some posters claim that any means whatsoever is acceptable in defending their claim to territory. What this means of course, is that war will continue to be justified at the expense of innocent civilians on all sides.

All this pain and misery for the sake of oil (in most cases) and religion (the second coming in the case of christians and religious freedom in the case of Muslims and Jews).

The passionate and opposing views of posters here reveal just how impossible the situation in the M.E. has become. Until all sides can swallow their pride and sit down to negotiate and, yes, compromise; there is no sign of peace to come in any foreseeable future.

It is situations like this that convinces me that human beings are no more civilised than when cave men dragged off cave women as plunder.

Rather than post here, write to your local Fed member and call for peace. Initiate trade sanctions on ALL the middle east until these countries sit down and actually TALK to each other.

My parents did not talk much about WW2; though they did say that when resistance fighters struck against the Germans that the Germans would indiscriminately line up a group of innocent citizens and shoot them. Clearly a barbaric and immoral response.
The stakes in Lebanon have become greater with the infra structure of a country being blown out of existence with the shedding of much innocent blood.

The shock and awe associated with the Iraq incursion did not make Iraq a safer country. Likewise, the extreme intervention by Israel is likely to create a rallying point for their enemies.
Ambassador Bolton from the USA has stated at the United Nations that a cease fire is a simplistic solution in relation to the frightening circumstances in the Middle East. By implication that means that bombing the crap out of Lebanon is an intellectual solution.
It’s a solution that has not worked in Iraq.

Currently Israel is metaphorically lining up Lebanese and bombing them out of existence. While Hezbollah are seen to be terrorists at what point can Israel be seen to be a nation of terrorists. Even prior to this latest episode Israel was involved with breathtaking and callous deeds such as bulldozing Palestinian homes and orchards out of existence for strategic reasons. Clearly, Hamas and Hezbollah have committed horrendous acts against Israel and can be seen to be terrorists. But this does not give Israel the right to bomb Lebanon, putting nationals from other countries at risk.

Anthony,

"Proporionate"....good grief. I'm glad YOU have nothing to do with national defense (at least I sure hope you don't).

The level of ignorance you display concerning the history and complexity of the region, is only exceeded by the poverty of your solutions.

There is little point looking for 'moral' high ground in this whole saga, because underneath that identified moral high ground will be an equally immoral quicksand when judged by our naive and optimistic laws that are more pie in the sky than down2earth.

Can anyone show me a time, ANY time, when the political status quo of Israel/Palestine...call it what you will, was EVER.... EVER anything other than the result of a clash of political/military wills ?

You can go right back to the very day when Moses stood on the Jordanian side of the Jordan river, with the command from God,to 'GO in , possess the land' right down to this day.

So, reference to such quaint ideas as 'international law' may be hearwarming and fulfill out social need to 'be on the right side of the moral equation'....it does nothing to ultimately give a lasting solution and peace to the area.

I've outlined the ONLY method which EVER worked in that area,

DEFEAT
DEPORT
DISPERSE
ABSORB.

I've stated that this could be equally applied to Israel as much as the Palestinians. Interestingly this has happened to the Jews on a national scale 3 times. In each case it worked. (Assyrian/Babylonian/Roman) The ONLY times when this policy was reversed (Cyrus the Persian and the Zionist/British mandate) is when we have seen a return of the conflict.

I think Israel has finally tweaked at least in part to this historical reality. They are mentioning the Litani river, which is a natural border disecting Lebanon, as the destination to be imposed on the Shia population (ie..the HEZBOLLAH population) of South Lebanon.

GO FURTHER ISRAEL and include the Palestinian Muslims from all Camps in Gaza and WB.....

Bring in International Peace Keepers with TEETH to the buffer zone thus created.