Steve,
I follow your philosophy as strongly as you do, however to the best of my knowledge Col is what is termed as "a financial adviser" and from past disagreements with Col I have found through independent means that he is not a liar, merely a product of conservative thinking.JWH idolises Menzies, Col Thatcher.

With minimum wages to be argued over seems like pure hypocrisy to me when reading the story in yesterday's The Age newspaper entitled BHP's dollar-for-US-dollar pay rises where it is again thrown in our faces 25% pay rises for BHP's non-exectutive directors, some of whom also enjoy remuneration from other companies similtaeneously. BHP C.E.O. Goodyear {it's a good year every year for him} made $8.7 million last year, up $2.1 million on the previous year, and here we are discussing whether or not a Woolworths check out lady, who performs a valuable service, should be afforded a decent living wage.

I am not argueing that this immoral 63% increase in C.E.O.'s pay packets this year just gone is illegal, what I am saying is that if business can pay executives this way, and have legal tax deductions as well, what moral case can be mounted against a reasonable increase in the basic wage, to bring it up to a living wage. Does Australia really want to be known for the oppression and poverty of it's un-skilled and semi-skilled working class?

Col is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.Lets look at the history of Col's politics.

Do they have a history of helping people worse off than themselves?
Do they have a record of granting more freedom,improving living standards and fighting inequality?
Had they wanted the abolition of child labour?
Had they wanted the abolition of the slave trade?
Did they want to create the right to form trades unions?
Did they want shorter working hours or the establishment of a decent basic wage?
Had they wanted universal suffrage?
Did they want votes for women?
Did they want Medicare, universal state education, or anything else that improved the rights, power and prosperity of the majority of ordinary people in the world?
The answer Col, is no.
You are a self intrested shell of a human. You are also clearly not very happy given your constant nasty remarks to other posters who simply point out what a turd you are.

hedgehog,
As usual you are very difficult to argue with, presented with the facts. I'd say the prosercusion rests!

Steve, being called a liar by a deluded troll like you is no great upset, I suggest you get back under your bridge and contain yourself to trying to scare young children, such endeavours are more in your league.

Thankyou Shonga for your defence of me and the denial of the deluded ramblings and misrepresentations of Steve Madden, doubtless he see liars everywhere, it is common among those who simply project their own shortcomings.

Hedgehog – I notice you repeatedly used the term “they” in your last post,

Oh the big bad “they” (or “Them”).

Your piffling drivel is pitiful, a simplistic “Them and Us” debate in which, to excuse your own inadequacies, you presume that the “them” or “they”, somehow have a special advantage which you are denied.

You are partially right.

What you lack and “they” possess is strength of character.

When faced with a challenge of hurdle, “they” face and resolve to overcome it.

You whine and moan and demand the intercession of government.

Hedgehog, you wrote of me “You are also clearly not very happy given your constant nasty remarks to other posters who simply point out what a turd you are.”

The hypocritical pot calls the kettle black?

I am surprised GY has not pulled you up for flaming, none the matter, I will deal with you in his absence.

I will repeat, I am a very happy individual, the people who share their lives with me could confirm that, my partner, my business partners, my professional peers, friends, family and business associates etc. etc.

I am certainly a happier soul than you, who can only get himself up by fatuously speculating about someone you have never met, me (unlike your name sake, I do not dally around the hedgerow with small critters of the night searching for bugs and grubs to nibble on and where, doubtless, you would be well at home).

I do not seek or need to tell others how they must live, how much they are allowed to earn or even interest myself in who earns more than me. I am happy for people to make the best of their lives and respect me to make the best of mine, shame you do not share such a philosophy, instead applying your low vocabulary in vain attempts at abusing your betters.

I suggest as far as turds go, you are an expert, you continually expel them with every post and utterance, I think you would be a success with South Park, the inspiration for Mr Hanky.

So why do we have a minimum wage? To stop employers exploiting people with little wriggle room, and to stop desperate people from bidding each other down in a race to the bottom.

I understand the dole is about $12,500 a year? Roughly? And the minium wage comes in around $18,000 a year? So in theory, people prepared to earn, say, $14,000 are either being stuck on too little welfare or earning too much for their labour.

But think about it - is there ANY job, no matter how menial, or mind-numbing, that only deserves $1,500 PER YEAR more than the dole for WORKING full-time?

I know I would rather sit on my bottom than work all day for such pittance extra. By setting the minimum wage at a certain level, it encourages people to actually bother going for those menial, boring, low-status jobs. And makes them at least marginally worthwhile.

I understand the economics behind the 'but if people are prepared to work for less than we should be able to pay them that', but that dosn't make it ethically right, and in a wealthy country like Australia, we should not be trying to lower the wages of the poor.