You're such a good, tolerant and decent man RObert. I, unfortunately, am not blessed with such noble qualities. I was when I was a younger man, but now age has driven them from me. Now I fight in the gutter along side the rest of them.

After all, I was just using the same low tactics I quoted - of simply changing the subject and shaming the people I was arguing with.

What's good for the goose... You know?

But I concede that your methods are entirely correct and that you are a better man than I. Respect.

Maximus, I don't see it that way. The approach I take is one that I'm comfortable with, for others it may not work.

I also like Col's posts a lot although he takes a far more aggressive approach (and in my view follows a much more hard line). My own observation has been that if treated with respect he will respond in kind, if treated with insults he will go the extra mile (or two). I like his posts because he has put thought into his position and seems to try very hard to be consistant with it.

There are posters who specialise in abusive, hate filled posts. The rest of us just work with different mixes of tolerance and rudeness. My mix takes into account not just the most recent posts by an individual but also my view of our history of discussions.

I've had enough conflict and angry words in my life (with one person) to feel like I've had my fill for a long time. Most people have generally got to put in a pretty special effort to get me to go there (except the one who knows the triggers really well).

Cheers
R0bert

R0bert

I have been deepy hurt by your posts in that you believe that women are responsible for male sexual behaviour. I am finding it very difficult to understand how you could condone such behaviour.

I have pointed out several times now who have claimed that Camilla instigated everything and therefore, culpable (Maximus and Trade) and you were implicated in that you agreed with them.

The only insult I have written here has been describing SOME of the male posters as whingers, because it really looks like a case of sour grapes to me.

If Camilla should have been evicted as you appear to be saying by your agreement with others, then why have you not ALSO called for the eviction of EVERY BB contestant who has ever instigated sexual play? Major double standard going on here.

The only personal insults that have been directed at anyone has been Maximus calling me a neanderthal. What irony that!

I have learnt a lot from this thread.

1. Never, ever instigate sexual contact with someone or I can expect to be sexually humiliated.

2. What "turkey slapping" is.

3. That men don't respect women who instigate sexual contact.

AM I correct?

Psst,

RObert, change the triggers when she's not looking. Imagine her surprise when it won't go bang.

Scout and RObert, I've enjoyed following this thread. It's good to see two passionate, intelligent people engaging with a difficult subject and putting their ideas, and themselves, on the line. Respect to you both.

maximus, I'm working on it. Succeed occasionally but it has not been one of my better personal successes.

Snout, thanks.

Scout, In reality I don't really care much who comes and go's from the show, it is a game that seems to play some fairly dangerous games with peoples emotional well being. I've probably let myself get to caught up in the discussion and forgotten that.

I had to look up the web to find out what a turkey slap is as well.

From your closing points
Number one is a real risk for any of us who take a risk socially or sexually. I remember the humiliation as a young teenager of being ridiculed after asking a girl about my age for a dance. I guess she felt that she gained something from it but it was very devestating to me at the time.

Numer three - some do, some don't. For me it is about context and I think the same standards should apply to men and women.

Apart from your post I have seen no other indications that turkey slapping had previously been banned and have read material which suggests that variations of it are engaged in with some regularity in the BB house. If it was explicitly banned and inititaiting contact with another players genitals was not then there is no issue, I agree with you completely.

I do not believe that women are responsible for male sexual behaviour - what I do believe is that none of us has a right to demand a higher standard of behaviour than we are willing to give ourselves. Camilla showed by her actions that she did not consider seeking consent as important. The guys appeared to act within that framework and as has been made clear stopped when she indicated she did not consent.

TBC
R0bert