o sung woo:

I would be tempted to feel sorry for you, if you didn't obviously feel so sorry for yourself already - 'Essentially though, they're just waiting for me and blokes like me, to die.' No, you are paid those monies becaused you served your country.

'Go and get stuffed' is not a personal insult. You said you are a war veteran, well I ask you how many diggers would tell to 'go and get stuffed' when you speak about Australia in this way? Most I expect. I did not attack you personally, but you have called me an 'intellectual pygmy that has oozed from the sewers of life'. Because I use vernacular language sometimes, does that make you intellectually superior? I mentioned your insecurity, because that was simply an observation too, rather an being an 'attack'.

If you want to project your own self-pity onto the rest of your fellow citizens, that it is up to you of course. You may feel that society is crumbling around you, but it's the only one we've got. Which country would you prefer to live in? Is Australia really such a bad place to live? Does it really lack the 'culture' that you crave? If everyone else around you is really so deficient in 'culture', then teach them about it! Teach them about fine wine and playing the piano, about Tolstoy, about Impressionism in art.

If you are really a hero with medals then act like one. If you were brave enough to be a copper for a long time (obviously you were), then why are you being such a sook now?

o sung wu:

Do you see what I'm getting at? You would have, I'm sure, witnessed all manner of unsavoury goings-on during your time in the force. I accept it's quite possible that you may not have received adequate recognition for your efforts. For what it's worth, I'm not interested in hurting other people for pleasure, or for any other reason for that matter, and I apologise if it seems that I've tried to judge you too heavily.

I'm really sorry to hear that Australia feels like such an uncomfortable place for you. But there are a lot of terrible places on this planet and Australia (by comparison) is not one of them. Of course I've met many real bastards there too, but remember every country has them. However I do accept that it might feel like a terrible place for you. It is of course not up to me to tell you what opinion you should have.

Going back to what we were saying about culture - well the culture of a place is what you make it, to a large degree I reckon. It's the contribution of all a country's citizens, both good and bad. If you feel the culture is lacking in substance, or is 'backward', isn't there anything you can do personally to influence it a positive way?

I'm interested in your opinions, believe it or not.

There's a quote I remember from somewhere, something along the lines of: 'When a man stops dreaming, he stops being a man'.

In your previous posts it just sounded like you'd maybe given up a bit. I hope that's not the case.

Take it easy, alright?

O Sung Woo
yes, we do have a culture. The thing about 'culture' is that it is mostly unconscious. It's what determines how we act in life.

For some insights into our main (anglo saxon/emerging Aussie) cultural heritage, please read the poetry and prose of Henry Lawson and Banjo Patterson.
Classics are 'Geebung Polo Club', 'Man from Ironbark' (Hillarious) 'Man from snowy river'.

In 'The Geebung Polo Club' you can see the emergence of an independant Aussie spirit, contra the stiff upper lip Pommy attitude.

http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/P/PatersonAB_Banjo/verse/manfromsnowyriver/index.html

Contemporary Cultural practices.

You meet someone.... do you rub noses (Maori's), accept the offer to sleep with your hosts wife (Eskimos), or shake hands ? And..when you shake hands, do you make it vigorous, or very gentle and long lasting like the Asians often do, (which to us might seem very GAY !). Do you walk down the street hand in hand with your male friend, while both of you are heterosexual ? (Lots of Asians do this)

The place to identify 'culture' is:

a) Langauge
b) Social mores at rites of passage such as births, marraiges and deaths.
c) Religion etc.

...and so on.

AMEL, the tone of your last post was more friendly, I'd like to know more about your own background, where u come from etc, it might help me in understanding your point of view more, and also contribute to better mutual understanding.. care to fill me in ? :)

To all contributors. Please don't allow passionate opposition to deter you, or anger you. Give as good as u get, but temper it with reason, and all of us will benefit.

Warm regards to you all.

on sung wu - <I'd leave Australia tomorrow, if I could find a reasonable democracy ..>

I dont think you would enjoy living permanently under European-style Socialism; the US is a larger version of things you are complaining about; the UK, don’t even think about it. Australia, with all its faults, is still the best place to live. I understand what you say about diminishing standards, I feel the same way every day. The world I grew up in is gone, replaced by a world where old people are attacked in the street, women are disrespected and tracked down like animals to be raped or murdered, schoolteachers get jailed for sexual relationships with their students – the list *does* go on.

We are living through a time of great change, not all of it for the better.

Re culture: Ordinary Aussies have never been very ‘cultural’ – regrettable, but things could be different in years to come. Unless the education system continues on its merry way to producing yet more young people who are ignorant of the basics of our culture.

Hang in there – believe me, we are so lucky to be born in Australia.

Good afternoon to you all...I do enjoy Henry Lawson and others. I also enjoy Robbie Burns too, if I could understand him, a little better? Hero, sook, feel sorry for myself, intellectual superiority (hardly) and other 'tags' attached to moi, by some of you...I guess there is some legitimacy to all your observations. As I approach my allocated 'three score and ten', I realize, and in fact believe, that I'm no longer part of this society and feel significantly alienated from others, with whom I interact with daily. Often accused of harboring and cultivating a misanthropic position, I view with extreme cynicism, the actions of others. And, ever the copper, closely examine their true motive/s. I'm speaking from a macro perspective, rather then that which is within the microcosm of the family unit. I no longer believe or recognise that Australia is my country anymore. Therefore, I don't feel part of it. Nor that I'm ever heard. It would seem, prima facie, that the vocal minorities, have the loudest voice. And apparently, that voice IS heeded. I accept that there's many many good people out there. Regrettably, I've not had the privilege of meeting many of them.

I love these discussions.

They are always heated, because racism and religionism are always just beneath the surface. Always opinionated, because everybody believes that their view is incontrovertible. But ultimately pointless, because none of us can actually define "culture" in a way that everybody can agree upon. So we simply doodle around the edges, poking in our two cents worth, and taking the opportunity to insult people who we dislike in a manner that we wouldn't dare to their face. Great fun.

One sense of culture implies "being cultured" - i.e. understanding poetry, enjoying classical music, knowing which fork to use when eating Demie Langouste en Bellevue and so on - but that is clearly not the intention here.

What I guess we are looking for is a list of characteristics, habits, attitudes, likes and dislikes that we can lump together into some recognizable form and say "Yeah, that's an Aussie".

The real problem actually starts when if we actually are able to do this - which, as I have already implied, is an impossibility.

But if we do manage it, can I please ask, in all seriousness, what would we do with the information?