Scott's list of five factors which shape the prospect of independents like Cate Molloy in Noosa is a sound list. But the overriding imperative for candidates who have broken away from the drip-feed supplied by our party duopoly is for infrastructure and organisational support.

About forty candidates in Victoria who have either run as independents or never previously been party members are running in November's state election under the banner of People Power. A common brand, some collective infrastructure, and an alternative mode of "leadership" are felt to be necessary to create something approaching a level playing field for candidates who want to place themes of accountability in government and reform of political processes on the agenda.

It's a model which falls somewhere between a federation of independents on the one hand, and the centralised party structure of the Lib-Lab type on the other. It's probably the best organisational mechanism for driving the initiative of people around the country like Cate Molloy in Noosa.

Vern Hughes
vern@peoplepower.org.au

When push comes to shove, Ms Molloy is losing nothing. She would have lost the next election on her government's policy, so if she is expelled from the ALP all it really means is she can join the Greens.

The more pertinent question is why our political leadership has created the mess in the first place, that now, we are told, requires the destruction of two rural communities, the loss of good agricultural land and incalculable damage to the environments downstream and to Hervey Bay into which the Mary River flows.

In the last 15 years, as a result of policies by both the Queensland and Commonwealth Governments, the population of South East Queensland by 1,000,000. Last December 8, the Queansland taxpayers paid for a full page advertisements in Brisbane's Courier Mail (and I suspect, other major capital city dailies). It included:

Four million Queenslanders

Today: 3,999,865

Tomorrow: 4,000,000

(Row of photos including baby's face, farmer, blue collar worker workers, attractive female scientist with eyes focussed on test tube, etc)

Queensland's population will reach four million people tomorrow, Friday 9 December.

If you ar visting or thinking about a move to Queensland, you will already know we are the nation's engine room, Our population growth is only rivalled by our economic and employment growth. We now account for 19.5% of Australia's population.

Tomorrow's milestone and our economic success reflect that Queensland is the place to invest, work, live, work and play.

...

To all Queenslanders, I urge you to warmly welcome our new arrivals.

Peter Beattie MP
Premier and Treasurer

---

Perhaps Peter Beattie should have first thought to ask the residents of the Mary Valley and Rathdowney, before he decided, on their behalf, to extend his welcoming hand to yet another million residents, which he somehow plans to cram into South East Queensland by 2026, and for whom they are now expected to sacrifice their farms and their communities in the hope that the necessary water can be provided.

Good on Cate Molloy for standing up to Peter Beattie, and others with seemingly Stalinist mindsets in Queensland branch of the Labor Party, on behalf of her community.

Living in Ms Molloys electorate I feel that she has no hope in the next election as either an independant or member of the Labor Party. This is not due to the dam or labor policies, it is due to the Molloys.

Yes Molloys plural. (anyone remember Ivan's spectacular failure last election?). Scott should remember well.

The Sunshine Beach Surf Club had Ms Molloy as Patron, now she has been "banned" from entering any surf club in Australia. She obviously does not play well with others. In fact she is embarrasing.

Steve Maddern (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4591#44928),

I think the issue of Government accountability, democracy and free speech are far more important than whatever alleged indiscretions may have caused Cate Molloy to have been 'banned' from Australian surf clubs.

She deserves our admiration and support for having had the guts to stand up to Peter Beattie and to those powerful vested interests that Beattie is serving.

Let's all do whatever we can to make sure that Cate Molloy is still the sitting member for Noosa after the next Queensland state elections.

daggett.

not allegations facts http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1651506.htm

Ms Molloy will note be getting my vote next election based purely on local issues. Her original power base came from the surf clubs and the Sunshine Coast Uni intellectuals. She was seen as a better alternative to Davo and his fishing spots and won the election. She has now lost all of her power base and will fade away into the Uni.

I note the member for Gympie (where the dam is going to be built) is an independant and is quoted as saying many residents are in favour of the Dam.

My parents who live near Cooran will have a great view of the new lake.

Our celebration of the end of Joh was justified but perhaps a bit premature.

Remember Hanson broke away from the Libs and was showered with votes.

Molloy may not generate the same 'Joan of Arc' political magnatism but by golly she deserves the vote of everyone who believes that key components of Queensland democracy are held hostage by the Labor party machine men (and women).

Go Cate Go!

Queensland democracy! What is democracy, when Party Politics is the Rule? I understood the question of where to build the next dam in Queensland should be In an area that Water could be best used for the most “Production, both Rural & Industrial,” developing this great land of ours.

Further Urban Development in the South East is just developing further possible ghettos, where Unemployment, or Underemployment is Rife.

The Nathan Dam would have been a better bet, then the Centralized Focus on the Metropolitan Sprawl of the Great South East. Good on Ms Molloy for standing firmwith her beliefs. To the Great Mr Beattie, remember this, every puppy has his Day.

I met with Cate at the environmental day at Eumundi the Sunday before her last week in parliament. She had a stall next to ours (save the Mary River--No dams)and collected the local Cooroy Rag, the Carters Ridge Paper, the Mary Valley voice and the Eco News.

She spent no less than an hour discussing our environmental concerns and spent the rest of the day discussing with the visiting public their views on the environmental impact of this Dam. She has genuine concern for the views of her constituents and was very brave to represent us.I admire her as do many.

As for Mr Steve Madden,

I work in The Noosa shire.

Many of my customers, like other businesses in the Noosa Shire, have either staff from this area or know people from this area or do business with the people from this Dammed area or in fact enjoy recreational pursuits in this area. In the past 6 weeks I have not heard one person ( except you) come forward for this Dam.

Use your imagination as to what this shallow dam will actually look like. It will not be increasing you property value if that is your motivation. Thankfully the general population of Noosa are not so selfish or short sighted and do genuinely care for the environment.Hence they will forgive Cate for her love of "nudity" as she stands for the views of the majority.

Sustainable

I have never said if I was in favour or a Dam or not.

Noosa shire is very different to the state electorate of Noosa. I live in Coolum in Maroochy Shire but I am in Cate’s electorate.

The majority of voters in the electorate live in Coolum, Peregian, Peregian Springs, Sunshine Beach, Sunrise Beach, Noosaville and Noosa Heads. (Look at the polling booths) These people are sea changers and wealthy ones at that. The issue of the Dam is irrelevant to them, as it is to me. If Ms Molloy thinks she will win an election based on her opposition to the Dam she if off with the pixies. She will only split the vote and reduce the Greens vote. With optional preferential voting labor will find it hard to loose its 8% margin.

If you have concerns about Noosa Shire how about starting with untreated sewage and recycling of garbage. The perceived Green Noosa Council is a farce, the only thing green about Noosa is the paint on the roads they call cycle paths.

If you got out a bit more and talked to people who don’t read eco-news you may hear the other side of the story.

Steve Maddern (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4591#45024),

The issue of the dam should be of concern to more than just simply the residents in the directly affected areas. The damage that these dams will cause the environment adds further to the cumulative damage done to the global life support system.

At some point we are going to have to stop growing Queensland's population, if, in order to do so, it is necessary to go on damming rivers and clearing more and more trees. I would say we are already well past the point where growth should have been stopped.

As for meeting the needs of Queensland's population, at its current level as a result of the reckless population growth policies of Peter Beattie and his predecessors, other measures such as a comprehensive program to make rainwater tanks available to the people of Queensland should be tried. The fact that the concerned Minister, Henry Palaszczuk (pronounced something like 'palloshay') was not even informed before the decision to build the dams were announced, shows just how ill-considered the decision was.

---

I am still scratching my head trying to understand from the story you gave me at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1651506.htm

... what she had actually done to warrant her being barred from Surf Live Saving clubs. It states that:

"... she and her husband have been banned from all surf clubs over a fight about a famous nude painting."

Whatever that might mean, it seems completely trivial compared to the issues of preventing environmental vandalism and making our governments accountable to the people they supposedly represent.

daggett

The nude painting issue is the whole point. Is it suitable for a life size frontal nude painting to be displayed in the Dining Room of a club where children are encouraged to eat? I think not.

Is it OK for a member of a club to mount a letter writing campaign, contrary to the terms of being a member? I think not.

This whole issue was caused my the Molloys, they have "form" for joining organisations and then not abiding by the rules.

Local issues other than a Dam are important to me.

Steve Madern,

As I wrote, the issues of democracy, government accountability and free speech are far more important than what appears to have gone on between Cat Molloy and the Sunshine Beach Surf Life Saving Club.r

Speaking for myself, I would have no problem with having a typical nude painting being on display in a dining room of a Surf Club, where it may be viewd by children, but I can understand that others might.

It is possible that Cate Molly may have shown poor judgement if she initiated a letter writng campign contrary to club rules, as you say, but not knowing any more, and not having heard Cate Molloy's side of the story, I am not in a position to judge.

However, I repeat, that this seems, to me, to be insignificant in comparison to the broader issues of democracy, free speech and government accountability and stopping environmental destruction, and the fact that Cate Molloy has taken such a principled and courageous stance on these far more important issues has earned her my support and admiration.

The people in her electorate, and throughout the whole of Queensland have a lot at stake in seeing that she is returned to Parliament at the next state elections.

If anyone can win in Noosa as an Independant it is Cate Molloy. She has worked tirelessly for her electorate since she was first elected. She could not win as a labour candidate supporting this dam because so many of her constituents are against it for good reasons. A recent poll saw her with an 80% primary support vote. By opposing the dam she will continue to get Green Party preferences and support for her personally is high in our region. Her opposition to the dam is more in line with true labour environmental policies. Beattie's push for a dam is to get Brisbane votes. Noosa was expendable as a seat because The Labour Party has such a large majority. However the Mary Valley is not a good site for such a dam because deep silt will cause it to leak and it will be shallow and water will evaporate. Also it is not in a good catchment area. Beattie would be better building desalination plants rather than dams. Also we need water tanks for everyone and we need to get serious about conserving and recycling water.

Mr Steve Madden,
Just a few comments on the "Cloe" nude portrait and nudism in general.
First of all the nude painting of "Cloe", adopted from the original which hangs in Melbourne, is a charming painting. It is beautiful as opposed to pornographic. Quite honestly I can't see why such a painting couldn't be displayed in front of children. In Europe children see such paintings all the time and it does not harm them. Children regularly visit Art galeries where they see nude paintings. Hopefully our children can thus grow up somewhat more cultured and become less provincial, parochial bigots like yourself because they were exposed to such a fine example of a quality painting. I would rather our children be exposed to this than the sexual nudity they watch on Big Brother!
Also I think that the reaction of the Surf Club was a bit "over the top" and the result of some vocal minority wowsers who oppose Cate and Ivan politically. Both Cate and Ivan have been active members of the Sunshine Beach Surf Club and they deserved better treatment than they got. They have many friends at the club who suported them and who did not oppose the painting. No vote was ever taken to assess the feelings of the majority of patrons towards the painting. The Club listened only to the vocal minority.
As for Cate's support for nudist beaches, this is another example of her representing a local group. She did the same for the horse riders. It is no different. They are both special interest recreational groups. Cate and Ivan are well travelled and they know how popular and commonplace nudist beaches are overseas. They know what a huge potential there is in the International Naturist Tourist Industry. It is a fairly untapped, lucrative market that we should be taking full advantage of.

In regard to nude tourism. Britain's biggest naturist [nudist] tour operator is Romford based Peng Travel. According to Peng Travel naturism is big business. The company says there are hundreds of thousands of naturists in Britain and up to 25 million in Europe.

The growing popularity of naturism has resulted in an increase in specialist naturist holiday resorts, run with the full consent and protection of local governments.

The leaders in this respect were France and Croatia, both of which have had large tourist industries based on clothes optional beaches and associated facilities for well over 50 years. Naturally, success gets copied and various other European and Caribbean countries have successfully followed this trend.

But not Australia, a so-called sectarian country which, in many respects, is still controlled by religious extremists and wowsers. And according to people like that, Peng Travel, with many years of experience in this business, wouldn't know what it's talking about.

Australia has tourist offices in England and Germany. The French Govt Tourist Dept promotes its nudist facilities in London. Why don't we? Germany probably has a higher proportion of nudists than any other country. Why do we neglect this huge potential market? And, most importantly, the British and European winter is our summer.

Further reading:
http://www.armage.demon.co.uk/nuff/resourcebook/current/index.html?economics.html
http://au.franceguide.com/thematiques/accueil.asp?idth=12&z1=R59ZHnLm

So good on Cate Molloy for having the guts to stand up for the various groups in her electorate and for holding out against the dictates of Peter Beattie.

As for the surf club, what would they do if someone donated to them an excellent replica of Michaelangelo's David? Dress it in board shorts?

Thanks, Rex and Marsketa for giving me a more complete picture of the nude painting issue. Next time Steve Maddern makes another such revelation, I can assume that it very likely that he will not have given us the complete picture.

If you wish to debate history, Chloe was removed after many complaints, the president of the club acted on those complaints and removed the painting, local artist Gary Ross was not happy that his donation to the club had been removed.

Ivan Molloy was upset because he was a sponsor of the club and called for a vote, this vote was not required under the constitution of the club and therefor was not held.

The point I was making is that if the Molloys do not like to be told what to do then leave before you get banned, Cate should leave the labor party now, I note she has snuck off overseas instead of helping her electorate. (It is convention to tell the party whip of intentions to take leave, she has not)

There are no legal nude beaches in QLD is it correct for an MP to break the law?

'Chloe was removed after many complaints'. Do we know HOW many complaints, or do we just have to accept the club president's word?

'The president acted on those complaints and removed the painting'. He has autocratic control, does he?

'Ivan Molloy called for a vote, this vote was not required under the constitution of the club therefor was not held'. So the constitution is anti-democratic, is it?

In regard to beach nudity being illegal in Queensland and those beachgoers doing it breaking the law. If the law is an ass, it deserves to be challenged and civil disobedience is often the only way that works.

Until 1902, swimming from a beach during daylight hours was illegal in much of Australia. This law was changed when a Sydney newspaper editor, William Gocher, openly broke the law by swimming at noon at Manly.

At first, the law required neck to ankle costumes and segregation of male and female. After their swim, people were not supposed to stay on the beach.These laws were also challenged and overturned by civil disobedience.

Briefer costumes, men removing their tops, two piece costumes for women, all these improvements which are now taken for granted were won by civil disobedience, ie by people openly breaking the law.

http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/surflifesaving/
http://www.walkabout.com.au/smh/locations/NSWManly.shtml
http://www.freebeach.com.au/Neck-Knee-Nude.htm

Peter Beattie has defended his opposition to nude bathing in Queensland by saying that the safety of women and children on clothes optional beaches cannot be guaranteed. Where in Australia [or in the world for that matter] does the fatuous Beattie consider that anyone's safety can be "guaranteed"?

Despite the official ban, Noosa's Alexandria Bay has been a well known free beach for many years and has a publicised annual nude carnival. Cate has said that one of the reasons she likes this beach is because she feels safe there.
http://www.aus-nude.org.au/alex%20carnival.htm

In so many ways in Australia, wowserism and religious intolerance seem to carry more weight than human rights and a sense of fair play. And what about the huge amount of tourist money which could be earned from tapping into the proven international attraction of nude bathing?

Rex.

If you choose to join an organisation you play by its rules or you leave or get banned.

Alexandria bay is not safe, there have been 3 drownings there in the past few years.

"Noosa's reputation as a luxury haven for holidaymakers is at risk of being tarnished by vicious crime. Business leaders will meet this week to discuss whether security measures need to be put in place at Noosa National Park after the abduction and rape of a Japanese tourist last week. It was the latest in a number of violent attacks over the past three years." Quote from the Courier mail.

A-Bay attracts perverts and is impossible to police. If people wish to break the law thats fine, but my elected representative is not allowed to break the law if she wants my vote.

'If you choose to join an organisation you play by its rules or you leave or get banned.'

I would say that those choosing to support a lifesaving organisation do so because of the great work the organisation does and that's all. Then they may find that the organisation is autocratic and undemocratic and they may get banned for effectively publicising this. Very un-Australian, to say the least.

'Alexandria bay is not safe, there have been 3 drownings there in the past few years.'

There are drownings [or shark attacks] at many popular beaches in Australia. Anyway, that's not what Cate was referring to when she said that she felt safe at Alexandria Bay and I would have thought that this would have been obvious.

'"Noosa's reputation as a luxury haven for holidaymakers is at risk of being tarnished by vicious crime."'

Unfortunately, 'vicious crime' occurs everywhere. Are you trying to blame the free beach for the Noosa crime rate?

'A-Bay attracts perverts and is impossible to police.'

Hotels attract drunks, night clubs attract drug pushers, casinos attract problem gamblers, race courses attract rogues and cheats, sports grounds attract hooligans. But there's no public outcry to close them all down, is there? The public expectation is that the troublemakers are stopped and the majority of peaceful patrons be allowed to continue to enjoy their pleasure.

'If people wish to break the law thats fine, but my elected representative is not allowed to break the law if she wants my vote.'

Many beneficial things we take for granted have been achieved by people openly breaking unjust laws. Abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, fair workplace rules [now being fought for again], sensible environmental protection, various human rights issues. If Cate decided to be part of a campaign, illegal or otherwise, for something dear to your heart, perhaps your attitude would be different.

How's this for an example of a cause you would support:
'If Governments stop pandering to religious ethical minorities we will eventually be able to grow replacement body parts.'

Steve Madden,
Nduity in public is not illegal in Queensland. It is illegal to "Willfully expose your genitals in or within view of a public place without reasonable excuse" under the Summary Offences Act. Nude women don't break the law. (Local police said this to media) Cate would not be breaking the law. Since Cate was elected to Parliament, she no longer goes nude at the beach.
Reasonable excuse is not yet defined. Noosa Council and police tell nudist tourists to go to Alexandria Bay which may constitute "reasonable excuse".
60 years ago, women wearing bikinis were arrested. Laws must change with public opinion. Our polls show 75% acceptance of legal nude beaches.
Nobody has drowned at Alexandria Bay for 4 years. Nudists and surfies at the beach rescue people regularly. Without nudists there would be more drownings.
Police patrol the beach regularly. Their presence is welcomed by nudists. At our Carnival, police drove past 600 nude people. There have never been charges for nude bathing at Alexandria Bay.
Perverts are the exception not the rule. Nudist males protect women and children. There has never been a report of paedophiles there. Pity South Bank doesn't have such a good record. There are more perverts at Noosa and Coolum beaches than at Alexandria Bay.
The Japanese tourist, raped in the Noosa National Park, was not near the nudist beach. Nudists gave police information to identify and capture the rapist.
There have been many violent crimes in Coolum. Last New Year's Eve, two 13 year old teenage prostitutes were being pimped to older men in the public toilet at Tickle Park and the carpark at Point Perry is regularly used by "doggers" after dark. I say clean up your own back yard before you make false accusations about nude beaches. Your comments are ill informed and biased.

Steve Madden,

Please explain to understand dictatorial regime's subterfuge application by the charismatic captain of the Smart State. Where conscientious parliamentarian Cate Molloy was brutally bullied and intimidated by the despotic party machine (downright their corrosive character assassination techniques). Because of MP's democratic constituency stance taken on the mega dam erection to the detriment residents of the Mary Valley and Rathdowney. Who are expected to sacrifice their farms and communities in a hope that the tunnel-vision dammed project to climax as a colossal monument for the narcissist megalomaniac's ego.

Leo.

Thank you for your verbose relpy, I assume you are talking about Peter Beatie.

You make my point for me. Ms Molloy is a member of a political party, her membership of that party allowed her to be elected. She now decides she disagrees with the party and should resign immediately.

But no, she votes with the Govt. in favour of the dam, then spits the dummy and walks out causing her to lose endorsement at the next election.

There is nothing about her stand that is democratic, she is an elected member espousing labor principles. The only chance she had in parliament to vote against the Dam she declined.

If she opposes the dam let her stand as an independant member for Gympie.

Actually Steve,
Labour policy, which won them votes at the last election, was based on an environmental policy which Peter Beattie has now changed with his damned dam proposal. It is indeed Cate who has stuck to her environment principles and policy which allowed her to be elected at the last election. Don't forget the influence of the Green Party preferences on her success. It is Peter Beattie who has deserted his constituents and his labour Party election promises NOT to build more dams.

Sorry.

Green preferences had absolutely nothing to do with Cate's election, she recieved 48.45% of the primary vote and was elected on One Nation preferences. 13,904 votes 50.24%

The green preferences were not needed as she achieved over 50% of the vote after O.N. preferences were distributed.

She has trashed her best chance to actually achieve something by her actions, at least she could have lobbied in the party to change their minds. Now she has no chance.

Cate is just a bad politician, there have been many of them. I hope she enjoys her move to academia and that her political science degree teaches her something.

Steve,

What are you talking about? What labor principles? Espousing to privatise so essential public utilities by hook or by crook! As in reality left-right-n-centre churning party machines generated eders-of-zion cabal consequences. Hence the only chance for the civil society aspirants versus creed of greed hegemony rests on independent MPs sincerity to stand by the people and work together towards the participatory democracy. The time is nigh for the moral MPs to make a life vital decision -- breaking free from the tyranny shackles. Towards the future generations to come for the children of better tomorrow. Who without fear or favour be allowed to exploit their unique talents along the spirit of the enlightenment. While adopting straightforward clear pathway. Away from worshiping the machiavellian spin-doctor concocted vast zionist lies. Disseminated by clandestine might for the untouchables tyranny rule.

Leo.
When debate sinks to “Its all the Jews fault” its time for you to take your little pills. Your views are yours to espouse but don’t quote the world’s oldest conspiracy theory to make your obtuse point.

Steve,
One nation preferences to a labour candidate? You are kidding me surely!?

Leo,

You made some good points up until when your post entered into the realm of anti-semetism.

With the murderous record of anti-semetism in the twentieth century, particularly the 6,000,000 jews gassed in the Nazi extermination camps, that is not a path that I think any of us would wish to travel down.

Marsketa, you are right that it is Peter Beattie, rather than Cate Molloy who has abandoned his constituents. He has done this a few times already that I can recall:

1. In 1998 John Howard lost the popular vote (48.5% to 51.5%) but nevertheless won enough seats to win Government with the aid of a dishonest taxpayer funded pro-GST publicity campaign. After many people realised that they had been duped. a grass roots movement against the GST gathered momentum. As this happened the Labor Premiers, with Beattie foremost amongst them, went behind our backs to enter into negotiations with John Howard over the carve-up of the GST funds. This, more than anything, gave Howard just enough legitmacy to push ahead and eventually ram his 'never ever' GST through the Senate. It is unlikely that Democrats Senator Meg Lees would have had the gall to capitulate to Howard if Beattie and the Labor premiers had not first acted in the way that they did. As a consequence, Howard's rule has been extended at least eight more awful years.

2. Breaking his election promise to not fully privatise the half privatised Suncorp Insurance.

3. Privatising Energex.

As much as Peter Beattie and the Labor Party deserve a drubbing at the next elections, I still think, given the political climate, particularly in regard to the campaign against the John Howard's medievel industrial relations legislation, it is important that John Howard's overt political allies at the state level are repudiated.

So I would advocate always putting the Liberals and Nationals last on the ballot papers, and Labor second last. Hopefully, a few good independents, including Cate Molloy might win. With a large base of support they should be in a better position to begin to change the state's political agenda.

Diligent Daggett,

Please jog the memory of a Smart State citizenry ... held as the hostages under dictatorial regime hijacked democracy! Who was that quack? Guilty to declare with an utter chutzpah gusto:

"My government is committed to listening to the views, concerns and ideas of every Queenslander - no matter where they live in this great State"..."That's why we've held 65 community cabinets around the State since first coming to office in June 1998"..."I was pleased to take Ministers to the Sunshine Coast during August for a community cabinet meeting"..."These community gatherings are designed to bring our politicians together with the people they represent, and Queenslanders have shown they welcome this style of government"..."Residents and representatives of community groups met Ministers and departmental heads during the two-day visit to discuss ideas, issues and concerns about important local matters"..."A community gathering gave people the chance to chat informally or to make deputations"!

There is absolutely no conceivable way for Beattie to lose the next election, sorry Lawrence Springborg you are well and truly out of your league.

Don't be so naive to think that preferences follow how to vote cards. Cate was elected on One Nation preferences look at the electoral commissions returns.

If Cate stands as an independant she will erode the 10% green vote making them the 4th place getters, Glen Elmes will get about 30% of the vote.

As we have already seen there will be a leakage of preferences. Labor will get about 38% of the vote.

The new labor member for Noosa will be elected on Cate Molloys preferences, how ironic.

Steve Madden,

As I indicated before I will be voting Labor on a two party prefrred basis

Beattie deserves to lose office, whether or not Springborg can win. However, as I said, because of the overall political context, which is dominated by a Federal Liberal/National government, which is even more grotesquely undemocratic than Peter Beattie's state Labor government, I will be effectively voting Labor, on a two party prefereed basis - that is if an independant candidate, similar to Cate Molloy, who will, hopefully, be standing in my seat, fails to win - by putting the Liberals and Nationals last.

Your harping on about Cate Molloy having to resign from the Labor Party because she allegedly broke some rules is extraordinary.

Hopefully the electors in Noosa will decide that free speech, democracy, government accountability and stopping the obscenity of the Mary River dam are more important than the Labor Party rule book, which appears to have been inspired by the rule book of the old Stalinist Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

"When debate sinks to 'its all the Jews fault'... its time for you to take your little pills. Your views are yours to espouse, but don't quote the world's oldest conspiracy 'theory' to make your obtuse point"... Declared alarmist Steve Madden, without having essential decency to divulge a propos aristocratic Jew ruling class exploits to the detriment Jew lesser brethren.

When the deeper analysis of a macabre dilemma to attest that it's wrong to lump all the Jews together with the evil fanaticism, that supremacist Zionism has come to represent. It insults some of our sane raised Jews, and deflects vital debate from the real issues in question. Whilst delirious Zionist zealots (frequenting internet forums) are always eager to slur the opposing opinion holders with their anti-Semitic racial mania.

Versus those brave enough to speak-out amongst our Jew dissidents. Who condemn so painfully obvious world hegemony and zionazi crimes committed against the humanity. No wonder devious Zionist adherents (veiled under revolving aliases cast on internet forums) evidently having a great stake in blurring so radically span disparity between the Jews on socio-ideological grounds. How else would they use otherwise our Jew lesser brethren embodiment? Scapegoated as a human shield to deflect focus from the actual plague!

The Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion, also The Protocols of the Sages of Zion or The Protocols of Zion is a text purporting to describe a plan to achieve global domination by Jews. Numerous independent investigations have repeatedly proven it to be a hoax; most notably, a series of articles printed in The Times of London in 1921 revealed that much of the material in the Protocols was plagiarized from earlier political satire that did not have an anti-Semitic theme.

Since the Protocols appeared at the beginning of the 20th century, its earliest publishers have offered vague and often contradictory testimony detailing how they obtained their copy of the rumored original manuscript. Nevertheless, some people continue to view the Protocols as evidence of a conspiracy, especially in parts of the world where anti-Semitism is widespread. It is also frequently quoted and reprinted by anti-Semites, and is sometimes used as evidence of a Jewish conspiracy, especially in the Middle East.

The Protocols are widely considered to be the beginning of contemporary conspiracy theory literature, and take the form of an instruction manual to a new member of the "Elders," describing how they will run the world through control of the media and finance, and replace the traditional social order with one based on mass manipulation. The work was popularized by those opposed to the revolutionary movement, and was disseminated further after the Russian Revolution of 1905, becoming known worldwide after the 1917 Bolshevik October Revolution, when the idea that Bolshevism was a conspiracy for world domination sparked far-ranging interest in the Protocols. It was widely circulated in the West in the 1920s and 1930s, and while continued usage of the Protocols as a propaganda tool substantially diminished with the defeat of the Nazis in World War II, it still has currency in the arsenal of contemporary anti-Semitism.

is the reason for my conspiracy theory comment.

Your post on pravda.ru

BREAKING THE TYRANNY OF SILENCE ON GLOBAL JEW ECHELON HEGEMONY
http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?s=0d2b402216c900a067ae3efba305fbaa&threadid=8436

Caused me to mention your medication.

Enjoy your life in "Ghetto Australis"

The Labour party has a history of not disendorsing those they should have (Keith Wright and Darcy for instance)and yet they disendorsed Cate for standing by the wishes of her electorate and the Labour Party Environmental policy.
The Dam will not be built, it will be stopped by the Federal Government on Environmental grounds and Beattie will come up smelling of roses. He hasn't released the findings of the engineers because they will show a dam on the Mary River is ill conceived. Brisbane people will still think that he was doing his best to get water for them even though he is really trying to get water for industry. Gympie wouldn't have voted labour in a fit anyway.
I don't think a labour candidate can win the Noosa Electorate. It will be Cate as an Independant and except for the Dam she will vote with labour on other issues. Maybe this is the "master plan"? Maybe this is why Beattie has not kicked her out of the Labour Party altogether.

Marsketa

I am not saying the rules are correct, but that is what they are. As an endorsed labor candidate you certainly know the rules.

The Federal Govt. will not intervene, Bob Hawke stopped the Franklin dam because it was world heritage listed, not the same for Traveston. I do note the recycled no dams stickers left over from Tasmania.

And Johnny is far too smart to have people in Brisbane say you caused our water problems.

Cate cannot win as an independant, Bob Abbott may, Raylene Boyle may but sadly not Cate.

PS Thanks for a comment I can comprehend (grin)

Just a little more about the 3 "drownings" at Alexandria Bay. The first involved a German tourist who walked to the beach and went swimming (in his togs- he was NOT a nudist). A nudist first noticed him floating at the back of a rip and swam out to help whilst another nudist ran to the cliff top to call 000. When the first nudist reached the man he was already dead but he brought the body to shore. The man did not drown but probably died of a heart attack and was swept out to sea in the rip (victims who drown do not float).
The second was a diver who drowned off Lion Rock (which is between Alexandria Bay and the Devils Kitchen) in rough seas. He did not drown at the beach. Again he was wearing a diving suit and was not a nudist. The third was a young boy. His family had walked from Sunshine Beach very early in the morning. They were not nudists. The youngest brother got into difficulty whilst swimming and when the older brother rescued him, he was swept away. It was too early for the first nudists to arrive at the beach. Banning nudity at Alexandria Bay would not have stopped any of these unfortunate deaths.

I note that Joe Natolie has said that the Naroochydore electorate is against the dam as well.
In a few days time we will see who if anyone has been brave enough to nominate as the labour candidate for Noosa.
And as far as the Mary Dam is concerned, it threatens the existance of the Lung Fish which goes back to prehistoric times. This pertains to the biodiversity policy of the Federal Government. And who knows maybe the Indiginous people can find some artifacts in the area as well.

I like cowboy Joe Natoli.

A little while ago, when you could camp at the end of hastings street in the woods camping park, buy a pizza from Doddy's and fill the car from the petrol station Granite Bay was the semi official nude beach, they built a walking track through the national park so all the tourist could look at the nudists. So they went further and further away till they got to A bay.

I do not deny there should be a legal nude beach on the Sunshine Coast, it should be at 3rd bay Coolum. Close to ambulance and rescue and where 1 policeman can patrol the perverts.

The safety issue at A bay is a turf war between Noosa and Sunshine Beach SLSC. Something a state politician should be above.

We will find out more about the dams in the next few days, unfortunately similar lung fish species have been found to thrive around dams, ever driven down murdering creek road?

Jumping to early conclusion Steve?

Your impulsively vented derision ruined otherwise useful preamble to the vastly researched on your part elders-of-zion blueprint for world hegemony. What actually unravelled by now on world's arena with the far reaching repercussions for the hijacked civil society of conscientious citizens. Held in shackles down-under within the Ghetto Australis. Where elementary housing, vital health-care as much as a basic fruit-n-vegies (essential nutrients) cost, quadrupled via inflated machinations, beyond the reach of Aussie battlers.

Deliberately relegated out of the mainstream society into (we had to have it) unemployable's heap. Under US Deputy Sheriff's seized economy and savagely managed autocracy rule. Where all along the elders-of-zion conducted connive selection process (via left-right-n-centre churning party machines) emanated kosher captains. Conditioned to subjugate state and territories plebs within the penal colony.

So it's never easy to be independent thinker, speaking one's mind. Nearing a midst of the ravaging fury, evolving mutation monstrosity shift within the blindfolded nation. Where zionazi ruled establishment (courtesy of a mass media miasma) don't kill our conscientious dissidents right away for pursuing the truth. They label blacklisted battlers as paranoid and extremist misfits.

Invariably destroying thus good reputations and life's vital careers. For some, such a fate being worse than drinking hemlock's poison. For others it's just realisation that life wasn't meant to be easy towards the adamant dissidents in breaking the tyranny of silence on a globally plagued hegemony.

Not surprisingly this type of the revealed insight into contemporary elders-of-zion activity didn't sit well with the born to rule conglomerate and their dedicated gatekeeper Steve Madden. Who possibly be excused for his loopy comments emanation, blamed on a high dosage of methyl prenisolone. No wonder for his obsession with the "little pills"... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4632#45921

Yet totally ignorant of the connived Jew jellyback spiteful pollies stoned role model citizens. Perpetrated by thriving untouchables within Zionist apparatus. Camouflaged via melodramatically staged repertoires, ample of mud slinging contests between the parties of flip-flop persuasions. Reflected in the corrupted parliaments of power, where interior benches array has been moulded as norm into Zionist Menorah insignia ... http://ericmatic.free.fr/sitefolder/images/houserepresentative_JPG.jpg

Steve,
Yes I remember Granite bay as well. The walking track was there already and the people with their cameras and binoculars were PERVERTS! The nudists left when the sand left. At first they went to the north end of Alexandria Bay and then moved down to the southern end which is more sheltered. And perverts at Alexandria Bay are a novelty rather than the rule. Cate has said the National Park will not agree to a legal beach at Alexandria Bay because they will have to spend money building a toilet. The council worry about access. Rather than 3rd Bay Coolum I would prefer the beach between Coolum and South Perigian (a secluded section of it). It has a National Park behind it so is isolated. It has good access, good parking, a toilet. Now we only need the Council and the local people and businesses to agree.
Of course before Granite there was a beach south of Pt Cartwright called "Shangri La". But developers bought the councillors and were able to detroy all the Fauna and Flora reserve. Now they complain about the unexploded bomb shells from WW2.

Leo.

I do detect some logic in some of the things you say but I am not really sure. I cannot understand most of what you post.

Yes I am on medication for incurable cancer, it gives me my unique views on life.

Markeeta

Sturmers Creek to Peregian has the same safety issues as A bay. I prefer 3rd bay because it is a safe swimming beach, no rips or wild surf.

Steve,
You can't swim at 3rd Bay because of the rocks. Also there would be resistance from the developers and the owners of the "One Point" units. Recently I was called to testify in court that 3rd Bay was 500 metres away from the nearest dwellings and that the Luther Heights Camp was a further 0.5km up the road. Third bay is also difficult to get to these days. And it can be seen from Pt Perry.
The beach between Coolum and Peregian fits all the criteria the Government is looking for in a nude beach if only we could get council on side. There is no reason why we can't have lifesavers there at the beach in the future. Think volunteer nudists trained by SLSQ in their Bronze medalions at the beach every summer and every weekend.
You know at the Alexandria Bay Carnival, nudists hire 2 lifesavers (wearing togs) for the day at the cost of $750. We have no problems getting them to do it. Many lifesavers are on an exchange program from Europe where almost all beaches are clothes optional and often the lifesavers don't wear togs either.

"I do detect certain logic in some of the things you say. But I am not really sure, I cannot understand most of what you post"... Well, when we look at the aristocratic Jews -- Zionist splinter-group, beset by gruesome ashke-Nazi creatures at the tip of the racist-iceberg, encompassing Soviet communism creators, presided by the Jew tyrant dictator Josef Stalin, noted for Russian genocide of 27 million, topped by 4.5 million of starved-to-death Ukrainians plus-an-another as many deported from homeland, not before was committed already 20th-century first-genocide of 1.5 million Armenians (due to diabolical Zionist plot), you start to realise the staggering magnitude of the bloody massacres instigation worldwide by the Jew aristocracy (in its rule-by-the-best behind the scene in lieu of sovereign nations).

Within the era of universal deceit (against the good and creative) behind the parliamentary systems galore, intermittently orbited by communist, socialist, capitalist and fascist neocons ideology wraps (for the gullible suckers devotion in vain). Emanated since time immemorial to deal with any alternative ideologies notion, ever to rise from the grass roots of conscientious citizenry. Whilst mighty aristocracy, veiled under various Jew movers-n-shakers worldwide continuously pulled on strings, initiating rival-clique-puppets. Embroiled as ever in gruesome contests in lieu-of-a-superior Jew-clan dominance a nation (hosting a cuckoo-nested Jew parasites in a variety faith wraps, to suit application).

Though how little was written or filmed (on these bloody turf wars) by the global barons of manipulated mass media. About the fascist Jew crimes committed on the planet earth against the humanity! Whereas in reflection on some claims that Zionist organised communities were among the most active in promoting worldwide racial harmony, evidently it could not be further from the truth. As supremacist Zionists making sure that their kids have a good education to understand their elitist Jew tradition, so they don't assimilate at the later age outside Judaism. As-a-result Yeshivas are perceived by the Yiddisher paternity as vital in keeping the Judaism alive in the (wicked outside world) Galuth. Where scrounging Jew dwellers are incessantly coached via fundamentalist rabbi-incited-revulsion against the assimilation lust for the ferocious Goyim or Shiksas.

[Deleted. Completely irrelevant to the thread. Poster has been suspended for a week.]

Leo Braun,

If you truly want to help the people of the Mary Valley fight the dam, then contributing the material that you have is not the way to do it.

Your contibutions are, above of, all untrue, libelous and deeply offensive to all Jewish people. Even if we agree, as many Jews, themselves, do, that the Jewish lobby has far too great an influence in the the US, to blame all of the world's problems, including the problems caused by Peter Beattie to the residents of the Mary Valley and other Queenslanders, on one racial group, is bizarre and ridiculous.

What I find most objectionable in the material you have contributed is the implication that the monstrous political movement of Nazism can be, in any way, associated with Zionism. Whilst there may be reasons to be very critical of the policies of the state of Israel, to equate its policies with the murderous genocidal policies of the Third Reich is a grotesque libel.

On top of that, your articles are verbose and difficult to comprehend and show little obvious relevance to the topic at hand, so, whilst I would be reluctant to see your free speech taken away, your cluttering up of this forum with this material is interfering with the free speech of others.

daggett

We agree on something (big grin).

Back on topic, Cate Molloy is now calling for Peter Beattie to resign while still not resigning herself.

If the Mary Dam is so important why was she absent from the Dam announcement on Wednesday?

Cate its your time to resign, give a real polly a go.

Steve,
Perhaps Cate Molloy is making a leadership challenge? That would make an interesting turn of events politically. After all it is Peter Beattie who is not acting according to labour policies or his promises at the last election which helped him to be voted to office.
Anyway why would Cate resign? I agree that she should force Beattie to chuck her out. Good on you Cate for having the courage to face this tyrant!

Again Steve,
I too live in Coolum. I work throughout the Noosa electorate. My neighbours and the customers I talk to all agree with Cate Molloy in condemning this dam. Even water greedy Brisbane people must see that it is not a solution to their water problem. Beattie orchestrated this to not be another "Koala corridor". Wayne Goss was brought down because he tried to do this in a labour electorate. Beattie has cleverly calculated that Gympie is not a labour area. He has ignored other dam sites in Labour areas such as Glasshouse. The Government would have calculated that they had already lost Gympie and probably Noosa as well. Cate has a better chance as an independant standing against the dam. As a labour candidate she could not have won the next election.

When I first heard that Labour had a new candidate for Noosa electorate I asked just one question. WHO?

Daggett,

Point taken with a sinking feeling just-to-realise that the role-model conscientious citizen's stance taken for the Jew-lesser brethren survival in the Ghetto Australis, contrary to the silver-tongued Zionists usurpation of an entire Jewish race, has been written-off simply "as virtually indecipherable form of a concept except-for-being some sort of anti-Jewish-rant".

So much for the wishful thinking on my part, possibly kidding myself to envisage OLO forum to be a very unique place where astute people are welcomed to practice participatory democracy, vitally pertinent on the local issues as-much-as exchange logical interpretations as to the mayhem afflicted world, and thus seek constructive solutions. Encompassing a long overdue resolution to the vicious impasse (to-be or not-to-be) faced by our Jew-lesser brethren. Who as a matter of fact, were utterly unrepresented by the parasitic Zionists. In turn utilising us solely as a human shield, to traverse Zionist sown-calamities.

Having said that, in no time would I deliberately ignore the prevailing discipline, bearing in mind that the initially mentioned by me elders-of-zion (solely as a power behind the throne), were exploited in a malicious way by the veteran forum user. Who relentlessly challenged me far beyond the original topic's extent, while disputing blueprint of the world hegemony. Thus provoking me to substantiate my reasoning, exposing Zionism's sordid annals. At the time when I was eager to contribute towards the participatory democracy notion, precisely within this thread's topic: "Cross the Party Line and You Are Out".

Which became so ironically a very meaningful in my circumstances of being suspended with my arms wrestled-back for 168 hours, without any means of reply to the malicious finger pointing at me, and so caustically emitted condemnation across-the-board (tantamount to browbeating), to the effect that my "contributions are, above of, all untrue, libellous and deeply offensive to all Jewish people". In accordance with the frivolous allegations emission, which without any doubt were accomplished in a typical Zionist chutzpah style. Daring to voice judgmental bias in a patronising tone ..."on behalf of all the Jewish people".

As to the diminished democracy exposé, please proceed to ... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4625#47660

An election called full term will make it harder for Cate Molloy to win the Noosa electorate as an independant. She would do best if an election were called sooner than later whilst the DAM issue is still fresh in people's minds and befor the new Labour Candidate gets to meet and greet with the electorate. At the moment he is an unknown in the community. He doesn't go to the local school fetes and the Scout whatevers. He hasn't gotten riding tracks in State Forests for the horsy crowd etc. Cate has given 110% support for locals in this community.

Marsketa ..."An election called full-term will make it harder for Cate Molloy to win the Noosa electorate as an independant"... Not-at-all, if we start-to-adhere to conscientious citizen's commonsense logic! Which dictates on local Electorate Offices to enact a vital umbilical-cord-interface between the electorate and periodically chosen MP, who must adhere to the Representative Democracy notion. Where just as vital on MP was to serve the people, and not merely the executive rulers of the day. While applying vested democracy aim in relation to the real economy generation, along the just-law and-a-solem order maintenance within the social responsibility to the informed community. Solidly set on the equal-citizen's-rights within the principle privileges as: Subsistence, Health, Housing, Education and Employment opportunities (followed by the crucial remedy versus stonewalling by mainstream media).

Thus inevitably a local Electorate Office to form communication exchange bureau for active citizens participation within the unhindered need-of-contribution via local parliamentarian's domain, towards the people's-common-good. With an-ultimate goal on mind for a direct, participatory-democracy by people and for the people. Onset to embody our collective responsibility, to eradicate the parasites, who over the years painstakingly feathered their nests within the ivory towers. Subject to elders-of-zion preselection process via invisible hand-picked treacherous leeches and their filthiest derivatives rest. Conditioned to serve evil echelon masters, while forging this marvellous nation (if not for archaic vast wastage industries) into oblivion.

One may be excused for having dejected perception at times of being just an-alien-visitor here from some-distant-planet. Thus having to face a user-pay consequences. Which must be contemptible for the conscientious citizens within a country where ensuing generations of youngsters grow and proceed into the adulthood without having a single elevated role-model. Someone to look-up-to (as our maverick Mark Latham), towards the impending achievements to come. Yet when vagabonds wouldn't care, many forsaken, disenfranchised citizens still got to face the utmost uncertain future to come. While being blacklisted on unemployable's heap all along, they take a stance to survive and proceed with life in the Ghetto Australis, within so paradoxically stunning land of plenty, we call it home.