A debate I would have love to have seen. Of course Mr Bolt will claim he lost because of a left wing coalition of conspirators from the ABC, the Labor Party and the 'welfare lobby'.

Of course, you can't reason with the unreasonable, but I've got to admit that fool has got guts.

Bolt has never let facts get in the way of his ideas.

Embarrass Andrew Bolt? Come on, John Morton! It would take a better man than Robert Manne (who has never been able to come up with 10 members of the ‘stolen generation’) to embarrass Andrew Bolt. You are just trying to put Bolt down, make him look foolish, because you can’t beat him. You might have no doubt that Manne was ‘even-handed’, and that ‘had the documentary evidence under control’, but that’s just your opinion, and you are obviously of the same ilk as Manne. Manne and his clique of left historians have already been proved to be incompetent (at the very least) by Keith Windschuttle, although you would probably say the same negatives things about him.

‘A myth-maker needs to do something else besides distort history.’ Well, Manne is an expert at that! His ‘symbolically true’ reference to supposedly stolen aboriginal children clearly indicates that. They were either stolen or they were not! His inability to provide evidence indicates that they were not

He would say that wouldn't he?

I dont know that any one would go out of their way to make Bolters look foolish Leigh - he does a splendid job of that all on his own - and a good deal of his fans make a habit of emulating that characteristic as well.

Leigh,
You are not reading well. The use of the word 'Stolen' in this context was made perfectly clear. When something is taken from you without your consent, it is perfectly correct to say it has been stolen. A widow can say her happines was stolen. A child removed from his cultural roots is well within his rights to say his culture has been stolen. If that child was used as a servant from a young age, then his childhood has been stolen. The fact remains that great misery was caused and instead of trying to repair the hurt, you are indulginbg in semantics, thus perpetuating the misery by denying it.
As for pre-European culture being inferior to that of the invaders, surely today as the planet slides into ecological, climate and population chaos, it is clear that a culture that maintained this continent in perfect condition for tens of thousands of years, is superior to the culture that has degraded and destroyed it in a mere two hundred years?

Sounds like the history equivalent of the Broncos vs the Knights!

What sneekeepete said.

John Morton,
I don't know what debate you are talking about here but it certainly must have been a different one to the transcript that I read( http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/bolt_manne_debate_transcript/ ). You repeatedly give the debate To Manne but not once do you quote ANY of the actual debate so we are left to take you at your word that and frankly the transcript does not support your contention that Manne was stronger than Bolt on the night.
Perhaps you have a vested interest in supporting the Manne Position on this debate given that you are a fellow academic who's area of interest in the indigenous people of this country.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah and still the mortatility rates are too high, too many kids sniff petrol, the disease of alcholism is rampant, domestic violence excessive, and public heath issues all too obvious.

But a great debate to focus our efforts on eh?

Keith, you're on the money there. I'd just add high rates of diabetes, renal failure, heart disease, infant and maternal mortality and life expectany 20 years worse than the national average.

Against the background of atrociously poor indigenous health this "debate" seems pretty irrelevant to me.

I have written to Andrew Bolt,so many times,about the stolen generation and his version,but Andrew Bolt just will not accept my commments,no matter how hard I try,I even wrote to the Editor of the Herald Sun,and even he does not practise,freedom and the right of commenting,about,my comments not be given any credit,time after time I make it my business to submit my comments,even if it does not get published,and he talks about democracy,does he really understand what it means,when applied to journalism,it is of course without a shadow of doubt that he Andrew Bolt is a complete rightwinger and racist,and the Herald Sun likewise,is not fit to be claassed as a democratic Freedom of speech media outlet

The concept of having a 'last word' tells me this was the wrong pitch for such a sensitive subject. Bolt wears his prejudices proudly on both sleeves, is a paid up member of the Howard 'son et lumiere' club for the permanently credulous and/or devious, and would be at home on that high brow Fox News show where everyone who does'nt like Dubbya is belittled and threatened with deportation or treason charges. Mr Manne is much higher up the intellectual food chain methinks, but what was he thinking? Talk about throwing pearls before ... you know!

Robert Manne is obviously a member of what we call in the USA the "reality based community."

Bolt no doubt rejoices in this fact. As the Bush neo-cons say, "That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

The absolute cruelty of buggers like Bolt is what staggers me more than anything.

Sneekeepete,

I just knew that someone would come up with a trite comment like that. And, it had to be you

Trite! Trite!!?? it was pure Gold Leigh; Gold I tell you!lol

Sneekeepete?not worth even commenting on your opinion,methinks that Sneekeepete,has been reading far too much of the manure,that is written by Andrew Bolt

Embarras Andrew Bolt,on this i can agree with you Leigh,but if you know the facts behind, the mentality mask of Andrew Bolt,you will have a very diffrent opinion,it all comes down to knowing,the facts behind that mask,this writer,more or less knows how some people think,when it comes,to how people think,and knows how the mind of Andrew Bolt works,as my own background more or less,has been tied up with,the background of people,from where Andrew Bolt,also comes from,some of us do get embarrassed,but some through ignorance and stupidity,never do,as they think and in their mind do believe so,ask me I know,having been aroud this ball of clay for many many years,but do get embarrassed,when someone proofs that I AM WRONG

Well, interesting analysis of the debate, I guess. Not biased at all (ahem). Here's part of what I had to say about the debate, which I also attended. Here's a link to what I said about the debate (http://thespinzine.squarespace.com/journal/2006/9/4/bolt-vs-manne.html).

Sadly, Mr Morton, right-think has no memory and no shame, as Leigh and others have already shown.
Bolt-ians (from Howard down) will keep parroting their preferred view (3 months – ‘hotly contested debate’; 6 months – ‘another humiliating rout for the Left’) and history will be revised again.
Thus they sow salt for all our children, curse them

I hear willusa , i agree with what you have to say about Bolt .
Others CAN make history, just like that bloke in Tianamin Square.
I have just traveled by road from Victoria to Sydney and i saw virtually no "signs" of political dissent .Are we serious ??
If we want to change things we need to get active in the outside world .We don't want another 3 years of howard - bolt - windschuttle , do we ??

I don't agree with everything that Bolt says but 9 times out of 10 it will be more sensible than anything that "legend in his own mind", LW PC Robert Manne will say.

It'll more often than not, also be based in facts and not emotive claptrap.
That's the problem with regressives... oops... so-called progressives.

T800,ten times out of nine I will say that Andrew Bolt is wrong,as 9/10,his opinion is just rightwing bolony

Well done,"ybgirp",but Andrew Bolt and his true believers, by that meaning those who fall, for his arguments against truth just will not and can not get it into their thick skulls,that it is correct,stolen it was,or taken away against their will,but ignorant people,would remain so,as they do not understand ignorance,with Andrew Bolt,stolen, and ignorance,is not their way or habit of thinking,if it is black,with them it is white, it is overwritten with the following Das ist verboten

Well no it's not actually Karsoon, but your opinion goes to proving that perhaps your opinion is.

I must have missed anywhere you've actually shown any of Bolt's arguments to be incorrect or false. I await enlightenment.

It must be so gratifying to take the moral high ground, and defend it with so many of the looney left gathered in one spot.

There is no 'stolen' generation. 99% of those supposedly "stolen" would be dead if they had not been taken to secure and safe surrounds, almost always with the acqiesence of tribal or family authorities.

Rather than "sorry" day we should have "Thankyou" day and the generation renamed the 'Saved' generation.

It Never ceases to amaze me how reluctant those who claim to disagree with what Bolt, says on matters such as this, are to ACTUALLY look at what he has said about it.
How many of the Bolt Nay Sayers here have read the transcript of the debate in question ?
Come on hands up!
From the comments so far I would say not many at all :o)

Lain HANDSUP?

T800,just testing,the comments to get the result

T800,sorry mate this writer has made it very clear,that Andrew Bolt,has not got the guts,to answer when questioned,time after time,this writer and many others have challeneged,and refuted his bolony version of many items with regards to his interpretation of events,and what was his response,the SNIP,and my beef is with him,and not readers of this forum,so to you will,I say,try your stunt in the Andrew Bolt forum

Lain,this writer put his hand up,so what is your response?

Ummm, his name is Iain.

Perhaps he has got better things to do than leave umpteen comments.

You have made your point, and you haven't added anything else to it.

Kassom
you claim to have read the transcript so what is your excuse for not once adressing the topic? It is so easy to engage invective drive instead of actually offering any debate on the matter isn't it? Seems to work for you any way :o)

I also made it clear,that my beef is with Andrew Bolt,and did not ask anyones opinion,as to what,my views are,but let us forget about my opinion,none of the two of you has written anything, worth,commenting about this man Andrew Bolt,so just call it a day,was looking forward to some views,but non is forthcoming

Okay today stolen means symbolically stolen, not literally stolen.

What will it mean tomorrow?

Can we get some conscensus? Or just see whatever floats?

Andrew Bolt.print if accepted.An ARSEHOLE with a CHEESEHEAD MENTALITY