Why on earth was this garbage published?

Leigh, I'm surprised that you were not touched by the authors obvious concern for the victims of violent crime. That his focus was so strongly on the suffering that he and other like him have inflicted on those innocents who have found themselves staring down the barrel of a gun during an armed robery. Those people who struggle to work again because next time they might not survive. Those who take years to feel safe again (if ever) in a public place.

Surely your heart was touched by his lack of concern for the discomfort he endured as he reflected on the fate of his victims and the harm that he has done them.

For those who don't get it I'm being tongue in cheek. Not an ounce of remorse in the article, just a bunch of bleating about how tough he had it being fed and housed at the tax payers expense as a result of his crimes.

Nothing in the article suggests that as someone who has used weapons while commiting crimes he has anything at all to complain about. He can live with the knowledge that the law will not pull the trigger for the hell of it, only in the most dire circumstances. He can live with the knowledge that his needs will always be given consideration regardless of how far he trangresses against society. Not so his victims.

R0bert

Bernie's post's are great. Much of what he tells us we would never otherwise know because our journalists are, in order to get the best news leads, in cahoots with politicians and bureaucrats to occasionally supress information that we should be told.

We already have too much penal institutions in our State. Rev enge does not equal justice.

Yes, Robert. What a heartless devil I am. I know I should feel concern for convicted armed robbers put into terrible jails. But, somehow I just can't seem to do it. His photograph doesn't help.

'Revenge does not equal justice', Blimey, what would you do to these crims?Give them a holiday on the Gold Coast?
While they are inside, the populace has nothing to fear from them, for a while anyhow.
It would be interesting to get an article written by the other side, a victim of a brutal armed robbery describing his/her state of mind for how long it takes to forget the terror that has been inflicted on them .
How it has affect their work, their leisure,their relationships.
Growing up poor is no excuse for crime, the main reason would be sheer laziness.
No sympathy.

Bernie thanks for sharing your experience and consequent insight with us. I thought it was ironic that the guards behaved in a criminal manner ignoring the injured prisoner, Levy, while the prisoners did what they thought was necessary to get assistance to a man with an ankle broken in three places. Leaving Levy like that was criminal.

You also mentioned how the "screws' retaliated with a campaign of harrassment against prisoners. This method of stirring resentment amongst prisoners by punishing all prisoners is based on what prison management method? Sounds like the prison guards, in that particular prison, were into anarchy.

Hope things have changed to a more professional system. Two reasons. First, that kind of draconian measures of control only leads to unnecessary confrontation between guards and prisoners, thereby, endangering the prison guards unnecessarily; and second, it is plan wrong for prison staff to be inflicting their particular personalised form of punishment on prisoners. That is the magistrates duty.

Blake said: "Prisons are built from stones of Law.... "

That Law applies to the prison officials, guards and prison staff too.

It seems that some would have our correctional facilities built from the rabble of spite, vengence, vendetta, legitamised, authorised anarchistic behaviour, cruelty and negligence.

RObert I did not read Bernie asking for sympathy - I read BW presenting some facts. I gleaned from them that he just wants professional behaviour from the prison authorities and system. His article tells me that this was not the case here.

Leigh: I get the feeling that you are more in tune with Saddam Hussiens's Iraqi prison methods than the Australian ideal.

Some of you lot, for folk who supposedly value freedom and democracy so much (probably more than your own lives) you miss the whole point of incarceration.

Good police and good prison staff are the salt of the earth. We must insure that these folk are not put in the position where they are just inhumane tools, instead of proud, ethical servants of the Law. (FREEDOM)

The variety of comments, put forward have good points. Bernie was just explaining a situation, he was not trying to justify his position or history. How to treat those committing crimes is no easy task, as all are different.

Having been involved in the NSW prison system during the time Bernie mentions, I can assure you that he speaks the truth. Its a violent place, lots of screws join the service when they fail to become cops or the armed services rejects them for some reason. There are many misfits looking after prisoners, they get joy out of seeing people suffer. The same goes for prisoners, so when you have these two groups together, sparks can fly. I know Katingal, its not a nice place. I also know tracs at Goulburn gaol and have seen it in action on many occasions, its not for the faint hearted.

Changes began when Tony Vinson took charge of the system, he started to humanise the system. I dealt with senior screws that were transferred out of Grafton and investigated, they were hard men who caused a lot of problems and were vicious in their work. They believed that beatings and deprivation worked, it didn't take long to prove them wrong.

We will always have crime and we must lock up those that commit crime, but the system still isn't what it should be. People should come out of jail changed for the better, education does that. If we remove the corruption from the system and educate the crims properly, we may go forward.

Bernie wrote this very well, yet kept many things back. Everything goes on in jail that goes on outside, its just more intense.

This artical is the most convincing argument for reintroducing the death penalty I have ever read.

I got the sense that Bernie's portrayal of himself and fellow prisoners was somewhat heroic. Maybe they can all wear T-shirts that say "I survived Katringal."

He gives us an accurate accounting of his experience, but one where I too find no remorse, or sympathy for the people who were victimized by these criminals.

There are many examples of prisons where the conditions are ones of abuse, deprivation, humiliation. Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo come to recent memory. Without strict oversight any place of detention can become a living hell for those being incarcerated.

We have a Sheriff in Phoenix, Arizona who has brought back the good old days of prison life. He has erected a tent city to address overcrowding, implemented chain gangs, and uses boot camp on young offenders to scare them straight. Sheriff Joe's philosophy, prison should be a place you don't want to go again.

My point is this, it is the job of authority to protect the citizens from the criminal element. It takes great courage, discipline and patience for men in authority to lead properly, to set the example, not become the thing they hate.

The problem with authority on all levels, is finding men who want that authority for the right reasons. Because they want to serve, not feed their own petty egos with the need to seek power. Unfortunately, we have more of the latter example and too few of the former.

Lack of real leaders, men of conscience, justice, humility are as rare as hens teeth, always have been, always will be. Until then, everyone of us had better hope that we never become a guest of the state and experience prison life.

Patti Jr. The best and only way to avoid a prison sentence is to keep one's hands off other people's goods,don't hurt other people and though being law abiding may be boring,it is more peaceful in the long run.
It is not hard to toe the line and it makes for the well being of society if everyone co operates.
Kinder to one's children.Kinder to oneself because there is less conflict within and without.

The only people who were there were intractable violent crimals who were so dangerous that they had to be kept in a secure environment. They didn't like it. People like Bernie Matthews are only interested in the system being "humane" when it affected him. Not much humanity was shown towards their many victims, some of whom were prison officers who they saw as fair game. It was only that a soft headed Tony Vinson was appointed in a reaction to the Bathurst riots that criminals like Matthews got a say in things. If I were Bernie Matthews I'd keep quiet about Katingal in case people found out why you were there.

Mickijo, While I agree with your characterization that if we keep our noses clean and be kind to one another we can avoid being imprisoned. I was referring to the persons who through circumstantial evidence are wrongly imprisoned. Since the validation of DNA evidence men and women are belong proven not guilty after serving years of wrongful imprisonment. Our jails and prisons are also full of drug offenders who are not necessarily criminals but people who have an addictive personality whose crime is one of possession of a controlled substance. These people need help, not imprisonment. I'm not saying that they are not guilty if while in possession they are committing a crime. Clearly that type of offender is a criminal.

Leigh and Robert, spot on.

When Bernie has the courage to ask himself, and answer honestly, what he did to contribute to his incarceration and whether he still believes the world owes him a living.

Trannie – yeah, from your other posts a dysfunctional response is expected.

Of course all prisoners in every correctional facility are misunderstood bed-wetters who are really innocent and the victims of a corrupt social order. Whatever !

Pattie” My point is this, it is the job of authority to protect the citizens from the criminal element. It takes great courage, discipline and patience for men in authority to lead properly, to set the example, not become the thing they hate.”

To support your suggestion to courage, Correctional facilities are regulated. I agree with the need for courage and offer the observation that such values are enhanced by the process of separate inspectorates, reporting checks and intervention balances which exist to ensure the custodians do not become like the Bernie Matthews of this world.
That said, it is also true that to maintain such standards can have a devastating personal effect on some custodial staff (mixing with bad people – and criminals are “bad people” - hardens and desensitises many) .

Leigh you first words should rank among the last words “Why on earth was this garbage published?” – maybe just GY’s sense of humour.

Col thanks again.

Patty same to you, I'm enjoying your posts on this issue. They seem to be bringing a good sense of balance to the debate.

Dealing with those who treat society with contempt is a problem that we have no easy consistent answers for. I would not like the job of dealing with them on a day to day basis and wonder what impact it would have on me.

It is interesting to see the different emphasis that various contributers have read into this article.

R0bert

The article was an insight into the prison system, not the personal life of the author no matter what we feel about him.
It is an inside view that most in society are never given any glimpse of.

We all must ask the question what does gaol do to human beings? what state will they be in when they are released into the community as a result of their incarceration? If we brutalise them, even if we feel they deserve it, what is the consequence on the whole society?

prisons don't work and statistics on residivism prove it. Increased imprisonment rates accompany increased crime rates - they have not reduced them. However circle sentencing and restorative justice does work and can reduce local crime rates by over 60% (cant remember the references but it was studied in trials in NSW and else where). These programs also give victims and their families a face to face confrontation with the perpetrator who is forced to confront the reality of what they have done and to fully understand the consequences on real people of their crimes. Prison does not support the victim, does not allow contact between the victim or their family with the perpetrator outside of the court evidence process and does not provide any healing of the brokenness that is caused by crime for the victim most importantly but no healing for the perpetrator as well, ensuring more problems in the future.

The hard attitudes to prisoners expressed in previous posts are understandable. But if we cannot get above the hurt and pain and move to healing, either in public opinion or corrections policies, we are doomed to many more brutal and sick human beings being generated for us to deal with.

The death penalty is no answer, just look at Americas violent crime rates.

King Canute,
I have to agree with you.

King Canute, you are correct in that prison often leads to more crime. It can become a training ground. While I am not a fan of religion I am a fan when religion and belief in a higher power can inspire people to live a kinder life. There are faith based prisons springing up in America. There are also programs where prisoners are put in charge of animals from local shelters. The goal of these programs is to instill empathy and conscience in people who had none. Lack of empathy, and conscience is a precursor to crime of all kinds.( Look at government corruption. ) Sorry, I wandered off topic.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That's where courage comes in. It takes leadership to make a change in a system when it is not working. Clearly brutal treatment only breeds brutality. If we are to make the necessary changes we must not fear new ideas.
Thanks for your perspective.

What it would feel like to be self righteous, critical and judgemental. Relieved, I am not one. Those fitting this description and posting negative comments regarding Bernies recollection of concrete walls and razor wire should take heed to his words. Bernie does not have to apologise, justify or defend his past or present.
My experiences with Correctional Facilities over the past 10 years have been disbelief, but moreso disillusionment.
Firstly, due to my partner being incarcerated in Queensland for 8 years. The first 6 years contained in Solitary Confinement. Two years mainstream saw little relief. Two weeks ago, again placed into Solitary Confinement. WHY?. The answer is simple. Because they can. From a partners perspective its unforgiveable what they have done to him once again.
Secondly, my son was incarcerated in the NT for 3 years. During this time, he was assulted by prison officers (screws) several times and, was placed in a situation where he was sodimised. WHY? How could they allow this to happen? The answer is simple. Because they can and do. A mothers perspective this is heartbreaking. They broke the law and have to pay their dues to society. Does this fact alone, allow the powers that be, the right to punish further? The answer is simple. They can and they do.
From the day of sentencing, THATS the moment their punishment begins. Being removed from society. The position of Correctional Service Officers-DUTY OF CARE. This I am yet to witness. Along with Rehibilitation, Reformation and Reintergration, to date I have not witnessed any such interventions.
Offenders and ex offenders DO have remorse for their victims. Self righteous, criticising and judgemental individuals who posted negative comments, choose not to recognise this fact.
One thing I have learnt, situations such as mine with my partner and son CAN happen to anyone, at any point in their life. It discriminates against NO ONE.
Sit up and take heed to Bernies words. The day may arrive when you or loved ones may reflect on Bernies written experiences and wisdom. Ultimately, surviving the so called CORRECTIONAL Facilities.
Tilly Needham

Stalker, there is nothing in the article which suggests any sense of remorse for the harm done to victims. Maybe Bernie does feel deep remorse if so he would be wise to make that clear to set some context.

Society pays a massive cost because of the choice some make to commit crimes against others. The direct victims and the indirect, the people who die in house fires because they feel the need to have bars on windows to keep intruders out, the insurance premiums we pay to protect against losses we can't afford to wear individually, the people forced to work behind thick glass and talk to customers thru small holes cut in the glass etc. Those whos lives are damaged after having been on the recieving end of crime.

It is very counter productive when those charged with upholding the law break it, police who fabricate evidence, prison officers who act as corruptly as their charges. I'll be happy to hear solutions to those problems.

As for a former prisoner not happy about his lot when he appears by his own admission (if I've read the context of his article reasonably) to have been a high risk prisoner, well it is to hard to get all upset about that when he appears to glory in being a criminal and shows no sign of remorse for his crimes.

How do we ensure that the sentence that a prisoner is sentenced to is all that they receive? How do we do so without imposing a yet greater cost on the rest of society? I'd be pleased to hear realistic answers to those questions.

R0bert

Stalker “Those fitting this description and posting negative comments regarding Bernies recollection of concrete walls and razor wire should take heed to his words. Bernie does not have to apologise, justify or defend his past or present.”

Stalker has a right to express a view. I have a right to express an alternate view.

I know many people who work within the prison system. One of them in particular has done so for over 10 years. Their role included interviewing prisoners upon arrival.

Their view of “prisoner remorse and empathy for their victims”, the only prisoners who have any remorse are those incarcerated for culpable driving offences! The rest blame the system for catching them.

For those in prison who do not go home after their work shift, we should remember that they are there for a reason. They are there because they have demonstrated no regard for other people, no concern nor respect. If they did, they would not be where they are, incarcerated to stop them from pursuing a completely indulgent lifestyle of crime.

So Stalker, when asked who is telling the truth about what happens in prisons, one is faced with two differing perspectives, that of the incarcerated and that of the incarcerator.
Any reasoned thinker would observe the ethics, conduct and morality or the incarcerator has to be more reliable than that of the incarcerated. It would have to be a dark day when anyone would (or should) prima-facie, believe the word of a criminal over that of a prison official.

I further find it a funny anyone can comment to correctional services “Duty of Care”, although I know such matters are taken very seriously by the service in every state.

If the Bernie Matthews and Brendon Abbotts are examples, where is the “duty of care” that they have ever displayed and on which they seem to now rely? I would have thought such words would stick in their throats enough to choke them.

So Stalker, does Brendon send you postcards too?

Dateline:Phoenix, Arizona May 14th, 2006 Man kills High school sweetheart then kills self.

That's the headline. Here is the rest of the story. A man named Blevin was released one year ago from prison after serving a 15 yr. sentence for strangling his girlfriend to death. After killing her he attempted suicide but was apprehended before completing the act.

On May 14, 2006 one year after his release from prison he broke into the home of his High School sweetheart and killed her with a gun while her young son hid in an upstairs closet and called 911. Blevin fled the home and drove north into the desert where he killed himself with the same firearm.

Now, I pose the questions. Where was the failure here? Is it the prison system that let him out to kill again and obviously failed to rehabilitate him? How about the District Attorney who prosecuted him. Blevin was given a reduced sentence at the time on a plea bargain. Was it the fault of the person who supplied a convicted murderer with a gun? Was it the victims fault for not protecting herself from a man whom she had a High School relationship with?

There are many people culpable here, ultimately Blevin is responsible. He was determined to live a script he wrote for himself when he killed the first time, and no one was going to stop him.

King Canute, such an eloquent post. And so accurate. I hardly believe it but I agree with Philo! Well said.

And Patty (et. al). Nice comments too.

From a person working with the Justice system I can attests to a few things regarding gaol (or jail):

The incarceration of another is (or should) only be necessary when they are a danger to others. It should not be used for any other reason.

That it is used as a punishment for criminal but less dangerous persons is simply a waste of resources and damaging to an otherwise safe human being, generally creating a worse, more dangerous person that what went in.

Crimes fall into a number of classes, very few deserving of the kinds of places gaols/jails have become. There are many more ways to punish the criminal who are less dangerous. Our society just doesn’t want to spend the time, effort or money on it – ironically thereby creating a situation that wastes more time, effort and money.

There is more to be said but this is a difficult medium to discourse in.

Cheers all.

For the record Col – or is it Derek the 56-year-old born again bachelor? I'm a fully qualified journalist having graduated from USQ with a Bachelor of Mass Communication majoring in journalism. I was a criminal. I am now a journalist. I successfully made that transition despite the negativity of my critics.

In response to Andrew – whoops sorry Leigh! – one man’s garbage is another man’s gold. That’s the beauty of democracy. It’s called freedom of speech. You personalized your criticism with disparaging remarks about my photograph. What’s your point?

RObert you talk about remorse and victims of crime. Admirable sentiments. Perhaps you can explain to the forum why the Qld Victims of Crime Association – an organization dedicated to those noble sentiments - were caught with their snouts in the trough and were disbanded for misappropriating Government funds? It’s a matter of public record. You’ll find it in Hansard.

And the good ol’ boy sentiments of Hasbeen – bring back the death penalty. To date 121 innocent people have been released from Death Row in the US. If Hasbeen had his way they would have all been six feet under pushing up daisies. But then, what’s a bit of collateral damage in the pursuit of vengeance?

My recent article was written as a journalistic first person account of what happened, and still happens, inside secluded punishment blocks of State prisons. Men were not placed in them for crimes they committed in the community. They were, and still are, placed in them for security reasons, breaches of prison discipline or simply because prison officials have the power to put them there. I was trying to give readers a factual insight into those secluded sections that the general public never hear about – the Katingals, Graftons, H Divisions and Maximum Security Units – but apparently; if Leigh, Col, Robert, Atman, Mickijo, Hasbeen and Patty Jr. Satanic Feminist are correct, the general public don’t want to know what their tax-payer funded prisons are producing refering to remain blissfully unaware. That’s ok with me. But I'll keep writing anyway. cheers all

kilos "I'm a fully qualified journalist having graduated from USQ with a Bachelor of Mass Communication majoring in journalism. I was a criminal. I am now a journalist. I successfully made that transition despite the negativity of my critics."

We all have critics, I know I have plenty, so get used to it.

Alot of people have criticised Chopper Read for his entreprenurial diversions into the world of literature and creative art. Not me, if he can find a market for his stuff, then I wish him all the luck and every success, better he is weilding a paint brush than a pick axe handle (or worse) - same goes for you but don't prance around pretending gaols make bad people. Bad people end up in gaols and alot of good people are put there to guard them.

Because you are now gainfully employed in earning an honest income merely means you have, at last, achieved what I have spent the past 40 years doing. One difference between us, I do not consider it "special" or noteworthy for having managed to do it.

Well said once again Kilos. It is obvious you have hit a raw nerve with all. How sad it must be to live a life of narrow-mindedness. These individuals would seem to want their points of view taken seriously. How can one even begin to achieve that when such comments are, in the first instance, written under a blanket of anonimity. They want to see changes! Then do something about it. I have 2 suggestions which may assist them in accomplishing these goals. 1. Become a Politician, they seem to have the same intellictually impared mentality as the rest of them. 2. Make an appointment at the earliest possible convenience with their Psychiatrist, its blatently obvious that the drugs they are on are not working. Open your eyes and get a life. Your days arent over yet.T.

kilos, I gather from your comments that you are the author of the piece.

Any comment on the apparent lack of concern for the actual victims of crime (not the organisation) shown in your piece?

What is your estimate on the proportion (and/or number) of prisoners placed into these facilities as an abuse of power by prison officers vs the number in there because they have shown themselves to be a genuine security risk?

Any suggestions on more effective ways of dealing with prisoners who pose a genuine security risk?

For the record I agree with the comment posted earlier in the thread that we should not be imprisoning people who are not a known risk to the community and can be dealt with by other means. Doing so seems to be a loose/loose situation, the community spends up big time to pay for the incarceration and may well end up with a better educated criminal as an end result. Add to that the harm to family members of having a loved one incarcerated and whatever other flow on effects are involved and there has to be better ways of dealing with non violent crimes.

R0bert

Stalker “How sad it must be to live a life of narrow-mindedness.”

Judgementalist speculation based on knowing absolutely nothing about those who post here.

“written under a blanket of anonimity.”

Oh like signing on and using names like “kilos” or “stalker”.

Some of us use non-de-plumes for valid reasons, our words and views are what matter, not the public positions which we may hold.

“They want to see changes!”

I want to see changes. I want repeat violent criminals to be banged up for the rest of their natural life and as for drug dealers, second offence, top them.

“1. Become a Politician, they seem to have the same intellictually impared mentality as the rest of them.”

That would have greater impact if “intellectually” and “impaired” had been spelt correctly. But politics have never interested me, I would need to supplicate my views to public opinion, instead of being realistic about people being completely and absolutely responsible for themselves and their actions (both legal and illegal).

“2. Make an appointment at the earliest possible convenience with their Psychiatrist, its blatently obvious that the drugs they are on are not working.”

Never needed a psychiatrist (the only drugs I take are to fix an hereditary heart ailment) and if I did my partner (who works in a prison) is a psychologist who could service me (at a discount rate).

“Open your eyes and get a life. Your days arent over yet.T.”

My eyes are very open and there is nothing wrong with the “honest” life I lead and not one of my days past or the ones still to come has or will be spent being counted six times a day.

Seems to me, stalker your defensive post, which I have just responded to, illustrates a mind “narrower” than most.

It amazes me that people always want a pat on the back for becoming a decent human being after a life of criminal activity. A good and decent life should be its own reward. Upon reading the article my impression was that the author characterized himself and fellow inmates as heroes for surviving a situation that they were not exempt from being responsible for. These men made choices all their lives that put them in Katringal, and in maximum security.

Look at the case of Blevin in Phoenix, Az. last weekend. The man made choices, the man has killed again and is now dead himself. If we make choices that get us in bad places who do we have to blame?

I don't believe I have a desire to remain ignorant. I believe the variety of my posts on this topic and the information I provided are indicative of that.

As for anonymity, anyone can go on the web and find out who I am, and where I live.

In response to RObert’s question about lack of concern for my victims – I have never physically harmed or hurt any person during a bank robbery. Having said that, I do concede that I may have traumatized a lot of people but I think I have more than compensated for my crimes and that traumatization by serving nearly 18 years – 8 years in isolation at Grafton and Katingal where I underwent the same regime as other prisoners before me. Not to mention 3 years of wrongful imprisonment I served for crimes I did not commit. The slate is wiped clean. I’ve paid my debt to society over and above what was prescribed by law. But it seems Qld places higher retributive value on crimes against the property ie bank robbery than crimes against the person.
August 2004 Christopher Darryl Orchard received five years jail for 19 child sex charges relating to five children. January 2006 Orchard pleaded guilty in Brisbane District Court to a further two counts of indecent treatment of a child under 12 and a charge of sexual assault. The child victim was aged between three and five when the sexual abuse occurred. Judge Julie Ryrie sentenced Orchard to an additional six months jail and extended his parole date to November this year. It was previously recommended for August 2006. Orchard serves 2 years 3 months for child sex crimes and then he’ll be out. I did nearly 18 years for armed robbery and served every day of it. Perhaps you can help me out here Robert? Why does Qld have a marked disparity between armed robbery and crimes against kids? I am not a psychologist or an economist but, to me, something doesn’t add up in the remorse stakes. Anyway thanks for your earlier criticism.

Col, you are a true master of the semantic somersault. I am in awe of you. You serve up self-opinionated views without substantiating them with facts. How do you manage to get away with it? It is truly remarkable. Is it your IT background or do you simply subscribe to the concept that bull baffles brains? You say bad people end up in gaols and a lot of good people are put there to guard them. Perhaps you can explain why two good people at Woodford Correctional Centre raped one of their female colleagues and the incident became a claim under Qld Work Cover? Or perhaps you can explain why a former SDL CC Superintendent was dismissed for stealing and trafficking drugs. It was kept out of the mainstream media by that cute legislation that restricts media access to prisons - and therefore restricts the public’s right to know. And then there were the two good people, Superintendent Egg and his colleague Pitt, who were arrested and convicted for supplying heroin to the inmate population of Australia’s then top maximum security prison. Not to mention those good people who conducted systematic and institutionalized floggings of prisoners at Grafton and H Division for thirty-three years. The Nagle Royal Commission and the Victorian Jenkinson Inquiry unearthed all those good people. Then there were the bad people who ended up in prison like Lindy Chamberlain, Kelvin Condren, Robyn Kina, Roseanne Catt, the Mickleburg brothers, Andrew Mallard, Frank Button, Edward Splatt, Raymond Geesing, Ziggy Pohl, Doug Rendall, Tim Anderson. They all served over double digits. Guess what Col – they were all innocent! And here’s another gem for you – I too was wrongfully imprisoned on two occasions. And those are the facts Col. Cheers for now.

kilos, no argument with your observations about the lack of consistancy the Qld "justice" system. There is a lot of stuff that I don't like about it - I've never understood why someone wrongfully charged should have to pay for their own defence (unless they are a member of the current government). The government cares a lot more about appearances and dollars than actual people, I'm not sure how much their attitudes are reflected in our courts but the example you raised fits. I'm not sure what those observations have to do with the issues I and others raised about the tone of your article nor do I see how your 18 years have in anyway paid the debt to those you may have traumatised with your decision to use armed robbery.

Then I guess prison sentences don't really do much to help anybody, at best they keep a criminal out of circulation for a while and may provide some incentive not to repeat (or possibly keep them out of circulation long enough for a change of heart).

Were the extra hardships associated with your sentence a consequence of your own behaviour in prison or a result of prison officers throwing you in there for the hell of it?

I may have missed something but have the impression that most of you who suffered those additional hardships and served full length terms did so in part because of your own actions and attitudes during imprisonment. Is that a fair observation?

Thanks for your responses to the earlier posts.

R0bert

I can see why Bernie Matthew's excellent journalistic piece was published.

There are plenty of foolish people in society who think that abuse of prisoners never was.

Then there are those who think that it (prisonerabuse) should be. These people have a true criminal mindset and are just looking for a way that is regarded (wronly so) as legitimate or politically correct to folk. The mainstreams's indifference to the plight of prisoners is used by supporters of prisoner abuse (bullies) to legitimise their behaviour so they can get their sick little rocks off and pretend to be heroes of a Law that they have, indeed, rejected. (Letters from Home)

Bernie (kilo),
As a member of those who put people in jail, I wish to express my appreciation for your writing. You address an issue that weights upon me in doing what I do, particularly in your previous post to R0bert.

I have always acted in what I believe to be a fair and open minded approach but one can never know if the suspect truly is guilty. One can only hope that the system works. For me, I believe I have always acted in a way that would protect me, the victims and the suspects from any wrong.

I would also like to acknowledge that the insides of jail are both horrendous and hypocritical. I know that what goes on inside can be illegal, immoral and downright wrong. I think you would agree that it is a dangerous, difficult and obviously thankless task. That there are some (or more than just ‘some’) who abuse their position is a blight on our society – as much as those who find the need or desire to commit acts that hurt and cause harm to others.

I feel (and this is only my opinion) that perhaps a prelude acknowledging your past would perhaps have blunted some of the attacks against your piece. I understand that it was not the drive of the article and that it may have taken precious space left for other information, however (and I mention this with good intentions) I think that perhaps your past colours another’s view. Whether the colouring is right, wrong, judgemental or not, it does happen. That you may need to do it is a sad reality.

I commend your efforts to inform and hope that you will continue to prove three things:

1. That you are personally an intelligent and articulate person;
2. That you are an inspiration and motivator to many who would otherwise be lost forever; and
3. That no person should be doomed to judgement on their past.

Keep writing…

Its a pity many try to force connotations where they don't exist. Especially in attacking the writers person. I consider it special and noteworthy when anyone makes a drastic change in their lives. To make the changes Bernie (kilo)did, you have to want it pretty bad and its a big step. That step can take years, crime can become an addiction to some, so you have to change all aspects of your life, not just a couple.

Whilst I agree with Reason, I think not putting Bernie's past up was a good move. At least it drew out those wannabes who can't see beyond their manic bigotry. Those with the of knowledge of what goes on behind the walls, would instantly recognise the reason this article was written. Jails don't create bad people, it just allows some to express their flaws without restraint, on both sides.

The problem is in how the system is implemented, the move to privatise prisons is a backward step. Jails should be places for life education and restriction from society. The nature of your crime, should determine the direction of your education and how it unfolds. There are many who have been placed in tracs, for minimal or non reasons, screws who've started rumours about certain inmates to see them get banged up, beat up or knifed. Theres a lot of people in jail for crimes they didn't commit, luckily today with the techniques they have, its almost as easy to prove you didn't do it, as it is to prove you did.

Theres many who should be in jail that aren't, like politicians, judges, police, bureaucrats, business owners who've ripped of millions from people, get let off, a fine or short sentence. Aren't those that've lost because of the lies and deceit of these people traumatised and hurt.

What can I say Bernie, you write well and appear, prima facie, to have a remarkable recall of the events and horrors you apparently endured and witnessed during your two years and eight months, forced incarceration in the 'Blockhouse'. No doubt, Katingal's demolition will indeed generate both a relief and awaken a loathing in your life, of thirty years ago...golly, is it that long ? I guess it was indeed a malevolent influence on the lives of those inmates and staff alike, who had to 'exist' in the place. Yes Bernie, as one of those correspondent's who passed an earlier comment,..."it would be nice to hear the other side of the story..." or words to that effect. You see Bernie, I spent in excess of thirty months there too, but I wore blue. Take care of yourself.

Kilos “Col, you are a true master of the semantic somersault. I am in awe of you. You serve up self-opinionated views without substantiating them with facts…. – I too was wrongfully imprisoned on two occasions. And those are the facts Col. Cheers for now”

Attack the system when the system is at fault. However, anyone who wants to attack the system should first be sure they have admitted to all their crimes.

I doubt many of those you name have the character to admit they have been guilty of far more crimes against society and their fellow men and women than those they have been found guilty of.

As for the rest of the bluster and righteous indignation, why should I care what you think of me, the opinions of those who I know, (and really know me) and with whom I share respect is all that matters.

I know, for a fact, when asked to do so I had articles published (in fact serialised - despite not doing a degree in word-smithing) Yet I also know that because of matters like police character checks, you would be barred from earning an income in some of the manners I presently do.

Put up all the hyperbole you want Bernie, it makes no difference to me but remember, some of us see little substance in those who seek to excuse their failings as “failings of the system”. We accept our failings as failings in ourselves and grow by working to overcome them.

Oh and finally, think me old fashioned but the views I hold are the views of the overwhelming majority of the honest law abiding population, You might be consider me as simply a mouthpiece for the silent MAJORITY.

Firstly, Nice article! It was very interesting.
This is online OPINION, so I just thought I’d give mine! In Just plain layman's terms.

Robert, as I see it he is not asking for your pity. He is giving insight to what it was like in Katingal. (For those of us that don’t know) It was not about what he had done and about his victims, which I am sure he has thought about and still does. But rather it was his account of what it was like, when he arrived to do the time.
Hasbeen, I am so glad you are not a judge in Australia. Get back under your rock.
Patty Jr Satanic Feminist, I don’t believe he is making himself out to be heroic. Nor do I think he wants a pat on the back. He is detailing a personal account of what he has seen in prison. I know I for one found it interesting and informative.
As for Mickijo, I find it strange that a “saint” like you hangs out in online opinion. Welcome to the Pearly Gates Mickijo!. You are a true treasure.
And finally, Col Rouge, I have re-read the piece and can not for the life of me, find out where it states “the world owes him something”. I read it as him telling us what he witnessed. I also want to clear up the ‘mouthpiece for the law abiding population’. I am part of that majority and please never be a mouthpiece for me.
Fiona

Col, you speak for col rouge and nobody else. From your attitudes and statements, I can see your part of the problem in the system. Anyone as bitter and twisted as you are on this subject, with your so called experience in the field, surely can't be a help to evolving it to better ways and is bringing it down further.

The only people I've known that've served time and not admitted their crimes and the damage they have caused, have been the paedophiles, rapists and god fearing murderers. Sadly those purporting to be knowledgeable, take your attitude and are working within the system, are normally those that hold progress back. I dealt with many of your ilk, particularity those within parole and administration, their ignorance knew no bounds.

The best counsellors and help for rehab, came from career crims who could understand what people go through, how it effects everyone and how to turn in the right direction and get control of your life responsibly. Most incarcerated, don't have control or know how to fit. That doesn't excuse them for what they've done, but Bernie's article if read by many, would show that its not a free holiday.

Theres not a word about self pity, nor superiority, just facts as to a situation that didn't help anyone involved.

Col, for some unknown reason you seem eager to personalise your comments in the forum when you say - I know, for a fact, when asked to do so I had articles published (in fact serialised - despite not doing a degree in word-smithing)- Is there a point you are trying to make? You go on to make the judgmental comment:Yet I also know that because of matters like police character checks, you would be barred from earning an income in some of the manners I presently do. Well Col, you are wrong! Again!

September 27, 2005 I was the first Australian ex-prisoner invited to give a lecture to over 200 NSW Police Officers at the Goulburn Police Academy during the 2005 Officer Crime Prevention Conference. I feel certain that the NSW Police Force did appropriate character checks considering the length of time I spent in NSW prisons as a result of my criminality. I was invited to speak at the Conference about that very subject - my criminality. Col, your attempts at pre-judging me fall flat in the face of facts. cheers for now bernie matthews

Hi there Kilos...what an amazing event it must have been, to have you deliver a talk/speech to two hundred odd, NSW police at the Academy. You always could speak well, when you put your mind to it. I would've indeed, liked to have been in attendance, and listened to your presentation. I'm sure that I would have found it both informative and enlightning. I suppose I've been somewhat luckier then most (if one could call it luck), having spent many years in the 'system' (wearing blue, including Katingal) and a further seventeen years in the police, until my retirement. I've had the opportunity to view the 'cause and effect', if you like, of the whole jolly misnomer of the 'Administration (should read...'mis') of Justice', in and for the state of New South Wales, at least. I dunno, after thirty years or so, I thought I had a bit of a handle on 'crims', 'screws', 'coppers', and 'jacks', et al, but no, I'm still mystified, as to a REALLY effective alternative to locking-up people for years on end. However,apropos the type of individual you (society) want as prison officers, in order to avoid the events oft' mentioned in Nagle's enquiry, is anybodys guess? Kilos, what are the qualities that you personally, would like to see in a potential recruit, for the correctional setting? Notwithstanding of course, that there a many, very bad people locked-up in our Gaols, at any one time! AND we want them to stay there. Anyway, I'll leave it at that, lest I bore the good folk who may bother to read this...Cheers Kilos.

Alchemist – if you think I care about your wailing apologist attitude, think again. I was speaking about the honest, silent majority, I never assumed you rated among them in the first place.

Kilos – re 27 Sept 2005 - good for you, Like I said previously, I would rather Chopper Read gained income from his artwork than by descending back into a life of crime.

I suggest your read my posts, I had not prejudged you at all, I did express opinion on your self indulgent nature and attitude in thinking that the honest people of Australia owe you some sort of “featherbedded, 5 star hotel existence” because you are guilty of having pursued a life of crime, with a degree of competence that resulted in your being caught.

From your article I can only assume you still don’t get it, viz -

“if you do the crime you deserve the time”.

Hello again Kilos...I note you inferred that Col Rouge was in some way having a go at your version of 'the facts' - in these generalised discussions, relating to the various issues associated with the topic of 'PRISONS', in toto. I've read, and re-read Col's comments and views, and I don't think for a minute, that he was having a go at you personally. Rather he was simply expressing his opinions and perceptions, on the vexed subject of crime and punishment per se. Further Kilos, you suggest he is not in possession of the facts. What are those facts, Kilos? That once upon a time you were a criminal, or at least, engaged in criminal activity? By your own admission...res ipsa loquitur. Because an individual has not been in gaol, he's not necessarily automatically excluded from making an informed comment, or expressing a considered opinion? Kilos, you write well, as I've already stated herein. However, you are NOT the sole custodian of knowledge, with respect to the conditions and treatment of inmates in gaol. An informed opinion for sure, but not the sole purveyance and answer to ALL the troubles and difficulties confronting the Penal system, in 2006 and beyond. Oh by the way, you've often spoken of prison officers, with such a sense of palpable venom and hate, AND I can fully understand and appreciate those emotions. However, is it possible in your mind, that there may be many honourable and competent men and women working today, within the system? Including some of those who were employed in Katingal? I'd better go, tea's on the table! Take care, and cheers for now Kilos. o sung wu.

Thanks col, your insults are a true indication of your primitive mentality. As to being an apologist, again you show your total ignorance and ineptitude in coping with other views.

I believe in capitol punishment under certain circumstances, plus the removal from this country of those that can't be rehabilitated, to a despotic violent country we pay to take them. There they'll have all the violence they need. I also advocate the removal of privilege to enforce reason in those that won't conform to the system. But I despise violence and mental brutality, as the basis for the systems approach. The problem is Col, people like you need to be abusive, you say your involved, we see the results.

We need a total change in approach to sentencing, incarceration and training of those working in these institutions. First remove the violence from the system, by rearranging how it operates. You have to ensure there are different programs and establishments for varying offenders, so they can receive the proper help in changing. Deter them with defined outcomes for their crimes, not maybe's.

Col, I believe if you rob someone, you not only should do the time, but pay back the cost to the victim and the state, that should be for all crimes. With injuring or killing, the crim should have to support the victims or relative to compensate for what they've done. So probably I'm an apologist for, pay for what you create.

O sung wu, There's many in the system who are honest, hard working, care about their job and try to improve things. Many show compassion and understanding of the problems, but are hamstrung by primitives running the system. Its the bureaucracy and the myriad of politically correct professionals who are the true apologists, psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, highly educated, but lowly capable.

Hi there 'The Alchemist' - thank you for the remarks you directed to my last 'post'. You're absolutely correct with your brief summation of those who seek to administer corrections, and those who have to live and exist within that 'administration' . Katingal was , to a certain extent, a correctional experiment. In order to establish and execute better methods to handle those inmates, who were unable to be successfully placed within the normal maximum security setting. Amongst those were - intractables; escapees, non associates; maximum protection; and those who were deemed to be extremely violent in normal discipline, et al. Interestingly, when we first received inmates, all the 'ologists, academics, and politicians who had a legetimate interest, (including those who simply wanted a 'sticky beak') visited the place, and added their considered/learned opinion on how the place should run. Some of the suggested processess, included - creating a 'Management Commitee'. This commitee was ostensibly designed to provide a comfortable climate, in a non-threatening environment (conducted in a sort of a lounge room) for inmates to voice their opinions, complaints and criticisms, on how they're held and treated etc. In my humble opinion, this was a positive move. What the inmates thought of it...I guess you'd need to address that to Kilos! If you're interested 'The Alchemist',as to what Katingal was really like for the Prison Officers employed therein, ( the other side of the equation, so to speak) simply ask...probably more of a Q & A type enquiry would be best, I would think. I'll answer ALL your questions truthfully, and to the best of my recollection. Remember though,it was thirty odd years ago, and I did serve quite a time in the coppers, post Katingal. But, at the same time, I was never employed by the 'Aust. Wheat Board' neither ! All the best, to those folk who care to read my post. PS. Why do they call it 'Post' ?

O sung wu , Thanks I understand what the blockhouse was like from both sides and was at Goulburn for the opening of the new tracs unit and the arrival of its first customers, in the form of Pete Schniedas (spelling). I'm also aware of what transpired between the screws regarding how the unit was run, what they thought and how some screws got their rocks of at the expense of inmates. I had access to it daily during late 78-79.

Others may be interested, but considerings the paranoia of the unknowing regarding Bernie's article, whats the use. They don't want to be informed, preferring to be ignorant and judgemental in their delusional bliss. Write an article and submit it, I 'm sure you'd get some interesting responses and people may learn a bit instead of knowingly not knowing.

The alchemist that’s a great idea! I know I would be interested in reading what o sung wu had to say about his time at Katingal as the ‘other view’ for the prison officers. I think it would be great to read. Do you remember kilo’s o sung wu? I seen in your post you wrote “You always could speak well, when you put your mind to it”. Just curious.
Anyway, please have a think about the suggestion the alchemist made. I know I for one would read it. Fiona

Hi there, 'The Alchemist' & 'Fruityfee' - Thank you both for reading my little contribution, I appreciate it. 'The Alchemist', your seem to be quite well informed in relation to the activities of managing 'intractable' inmates during the period you cited herein. Firstly, Peter Schneiders (sic), remember this individuel well! Certainly NOT the most popular inmate in Katingal, but probably the most 'costly', in terms of replacing television sets (at the taxpayers expense) in the place. Personally, I held absolutely no truck with his situation, essentially it was of his own making. However, I will elaborate no further with this fellow, as I understand he is deceased. Yes, Fruityfee I knew Bernard Thomas MATTHEWS, well. I found him to be reasonably compliant and generally kept to himself. A voracious writer, to be sure. He was lodged in the same area as Fred Harbecke, (sorry Fred, if I misspelt your name)who was, in my opinion, one of the real 'heavies' in Katingal. This situation probably suited Bernie, because Fred ran a fairly 'tight ship'(in the opinion of the Administration) and this would in turn, allow Bernie the necessary calm to get on with his writing. Apropos writing an article 'The Alchemist',I think not. I don't possess the literary skills nor the intellectual 'smarts' to produce such a thing. Better, (if you're interested) to put your questions OR ALLEGATIONS to me, and I will attempt to answer them TRUTHFULLY for you. Again, thank you for reading my small contribution. I believe the OTHER side of the Katingal question should now receive a decent airing. I owe it to the many fine officers who were so employed therein, and who are now deceased. They are unable to defend themselves or preserve their good fame and character, against the legion of half-truths, and the downright scurrilous lies. o sungwu

o sung wu, if Bernie was reasonably compliant and generally kept to himself what is your take on why he was in the unit?

Do you have a view on the proportion of prisoners who end up in special units unnecessarily compared to those who go there because of their own actions?

R0bert

o sung wu, my involvement was more in the psychological spiritual aspect at Goulburn, I knew Pete well, mostly from a distance. Sadly I must agree with you regarding his situation, he was one out of the bag. There wasn't a day went by in the first few months of his transfer, that he wasn't a major hindrance and problem.

Robert, I'm sure o sung wu will explain his views. I feel there are many reasons why some end up in tracs, many of their own making, some set up by officers,( a small minority of times) inmates or even relatives. There are also those that refuse to accept their circumstance and approach it in the wrong way. From my short experience, most were rebellious because right or wrong, they didn't know what else to do. Not all were violent, just some uncontrollable.

Good evening to you RObert - Thank you for your question...Bernie, a recidivist, was classified as an 'escapee'(by his own admission)...Further, he MAY have represented a 'stone in the shoe' for the administration. Escapees, cause major embarrassment for the Minister, the Commissioner, and the Executive of the Prison Admin. As you're aware, the media will 'climb all over' the department when a topical story emerges declaring...'dangerous criminal/s escape, and place the community at risk'...? I'm not aware that Bernie was a particularly violent person (were you Bernie ?). In any event, he certainly did not display that type of behaviour in my presence or, that I heard from other staff at Katingal. However, an 'escapee' he certainly was. Are some people sent to these special security facilities (like Katingal) wrongfully ? A few yes, I'm sure. Generally, I say generally, an inmate must display a certain course of conduct, in order that they are eventually sent to such a place eg. protracted violence, escaping et al. In terms of cost to the community, it's far more costly to keep an inmate in maximum security, than in a low security facility, such as a farm or camp. Katingal was a very cost prohibitive institution to maintain. It's far better to try and classify inmates suitable, for a less restrictive classification. In very simple terms, it costs less! It's my humble view, that our political masters as a whole, do not wish to spend too much money on Prisons. Those that possess a contrary opinion, with a very few exceptions, pay lip service only. If I may borrow that oft' used phrase...'out of sight, out of mind'. I'm pretty sure Bernie would agree with that proposition. RObert, I hope I've answered your questions sufficiently for you. Kind regards...o sung wu.

o sung wu and alchemist, thanks for you both for your answers. Pretty much what I expected but as an outsider it is useful to hear viewpoints from those who have been involved.

It will be interesting to see if Bernie gives us his view on his situation from that period.

I'd also like to know how those who have been involved think that violent and/or escape prone prisoners should be handled by the system. Is there a better way of dealing with those prisoners who will not cooperate with the system once they have been sentenced?

R0bert

Alchemist “Thanks col, your insults are a true indication of your primitive mentality. As to being an apologist, again you show your total ignorance and ineptitude in coping with other views.”

Now my comment was in response to this little bit of judgemental garbage

“Anyone as bitter and twisted as you are on this subject”

I suggest your little hissing fits are more to do with your inability to tolerate differing opinions to your own. As for mentality, how can you possibly believe you are equipped to assess what you so clearly lack?

I suggest you get back to the junior chemistry set, maybe move up a rung (try making a silk purse from a sows ear).

Robert “if Bernie was reasonably compliant and generally kept to himself what is your take on why he was in the unit?”

Exactly Robert, if Bernie anticipated, let alone accepted any moral responsibility for his actions he would not have ended up where he did in the first place. Instead he parades all the supposed “evils” of a system put in place to protect the public and curtail the activities of the criminally intent whilst, simultaneously, seeming to reject any accountability for the circumstances he created for himself.

As for “o sung wu” - it sounds more like the title of an old George Formby song.

O Sung Wu, It was with pleasure I read your comments regarding Bernies experiences. You reminded me of someone who I greatly respect. It is obvious you have been associated with the (IN) Justice system. My observations and association over the past almost 10 years, shows me your attitude and opinion is of a small minority. Without genuine individuals such as yourself and the Kilo's of this world, it would be a very sad existance.
Col Rouge. You continually rant on about REMORSE, RESPONSIBILITY, and ACCOUNTABILITY. One would think you yourself don't have a clear conscence, or is this due to your family relations error in judgement when he chose to get behind the wheel of a car, drunk, and kill an innocent human being. IS HE, and as you stated, others charged with DUI causing death (Qld) are the only ones who show any 'remorse', 'responsibility'and áccountability' for their actions. According to you they are. Well, think again Col. From day of sentencing, regardless of what offence committed, ONE IN ALL IN, behind those concrete walls and razor wire, they are all treated equally. Also, for all, just for the record, could you clarify one thing? 2 years ago you mentioned your partner as being an educator within the system. Then you mentioned she interviews EVERY inmate that enters the centre she is associated with. Then you commented that she is a psychologist. Which is it, make your mind up.
RObert, In response to your inquiry 'Does Brenden send you postcards too' I wont justify that juvinile comment with a rsponse. Im sure Bernie would agree, until one walks the walk and talks the talk, or has a loved one incarcerated,only then will morons like the Col Rouges and ROberts of this world remotely begin to understand. You both seem to me to be a walking and talking classic examples of why they invented the pill.
Tilly

Stalker, I'd be interested to see where I made that comment? I've checked and it was not me. I rarely go for that type of comment on these threads, not really my approach (maybe after dealing with C$A I could get tempted).

I think that I have attempted to approach the subject honestly, expressing my view on what I've see, asking questions where I really don't know etc. Can you say that you have made a genuine attempt to do the same?

Bernie still has not attempted to answer my questions about his own involvement in the unit (unless I've missed his answer). The specter has been raised of "the screws" abusing power but the indications from what I've seen here are that most suffer as a result of their own choices.

Unfortunately some innocents will suffer in any system, I'm keen to hear constructive suggestions for reducing those incidents. The horror of being charged (let alone convicted) for a crime you did not commit must be overwhelming for those who try and stay on the right side of the law.

I'm not so keen to hear about those who did the crime (in or out of prison) who object to doing the time. Bernie's article seems to be about the hardships faced by people who for the most part did the crime and did not cooperate with the consequences of their own actions. I don't see any suggestions on better ways to deal with those who fight every step of the way.

R0bert

RObert, my very sincere apologies. It was Col Rouge who posted that comment, not you. We would all love suggestions, alternatives, and ultimately a system that 'works'.
Years ago the Juvinile Aid Bureau Queensland had a poster in every office. It read. When you live with criticism, you learn to criticise. When you live with hatred, you learn to hate. When you live with violence you learn to be violent. When you live without hope, you learn hoplessness.When you live with love, you learn to love. Etc Etc Etc. This not only refers and reflects on children, it also extends to our adult life.
I was raised to believe EVERYONE makes mistakes in life, it doesnt matter if you make 2, 22, or 102, as long as you learn by each mistake you become a better person. In saying that, Everyone deserves chances, regardless of their actions. What we are discussing are ways to a better system. Personally, my association with prison officers, there have been a very small minority from who I would classify 'from the old school'. Ones who understand and accept the inmates are there to do their time. Not punish them further with inhumane treatment. When this occurs, it is no wonder, the they are released back into society, bitter and twisted. Education would play a key factor while incarcerated. Degrees, Apprentiships and Tafe studies to be returned into the community with confidence and self esteem. We could go on and on regarding this subject. Until the Ministers and DCS see the problems they have created, only then will we see changes
Once again RObert, my sincere apologies.
Tilly

Stalker “Col Rouge. You continually rant on about REMORSE, RESPONSIBILITY, and ACCOUNTABILITY. One would think you yourself don't have a clear conscence,”

Not sure about the remorse bit but as for accountability and responsibility, you bet I take such things very seriously. People who do not almost invariably end up in gaol or at least suffering the contempt of their peers.

Oh btw I was the one who asked about the “postcard bandit”.

It seems to me, if “juvenile behaviour” were being measured, it would be his and those others who consider it appropriate to complain remorselessly about the terms of their incarceration when the opportunity to avoid such incarceration was always theirs to make, just like the rest of us.

As for the pill – doubtless any “independent bystander” could assess the value or merit of contribution made by either Robert or myself to the general well being of our communities and determine it somewhat eclipses the efforts of some other posters here or their interned partners

Stalker, apology accepted. I agree that it is probably worth while to try and equip some prison inmates with skills to help them better prosper without crime. Having said that I wonder what proportion of jail inmates are there because of an inability to earn an income through legitimate means. I'm not sure how we can viably create a supporting environment in a prison setting. That would require a massive paradigm shift.

Prison farm type environments seem to be a step in the right direction but I'm left wondering about options other than incarceration for prisoners who are a low enough risk for a prison farm. I suspect that for many the necessary locations of prison farm isolates them from family more than urban prisons would do.

As for those who insist on perpetuating violence, conducting escape attempts etc - I personally don't see a real likelihood that programs designed to improve self esteem are likely to touch them.

R0bert

o sung wu, alchemist, RObert, Stalker, Col Rouge and the many others who who have generated comment on my article to broaden various perspectives on prison in general. My personal view - prison is a necessary evil. You cannot do with it and you can do without it, however, after many years in prison and studying the underbelly intently I have found a changing culture that Qld prison administrators and politicians have managed to hide from the public for at least five years to my knowledge. It is a culture that is alien to the majority of 'old crims'and 'old screws' alike but it is a culture that has taken hold; particulalry in Qld. I refer to the culture of "the prison serial killer" which I outlined in my latest article for OLO posted on 26 may and lodged in People - Society for those who care to comment. I would particularly like to hear what Col has to say about this emerging phenomenon. It is the Americanization of the Australian prison culture that portends dire consequences for society as a whole. I watched the culture evolve during the 90s and idly pondered why the mainstream media neglected, either deliberately or otherwise,to inform the public instead of relying on media handouts from the Minister's Office or challenging s100 of the Act to lift the shroud of secrecy that surrounds those tax-payer funded institutions. The public have a right to know what is happening inside their prisons and I have unashamedly utilised OLO as an approporiate vehicle of free speech that s100 tries to gag and censor in Qld when it comes to open debate about its prison system. cheers all BM aka Kilos

Col Rouge, It seems to me you have a hatered for anything that takes YOU out of the spotlight. You are nothing but a whinger. Get a life.

I will respond on your latest article on the thread directly, thanks Bernie.

“The public have a right to know what is happening inside their prisons”

The public is represented through the democratic processes of the elected politicians who oversee, as state ministers of justice etc., there is also the correctional inspectorate staff (who operate independently of the line of custodial command) plus any number of annually submitted reports. Then we have various private individuals and organisation such as chaplains, prison visitors etc. who have reasonably unfettered access to prisoners and the prison system.

The notion that prisons are the private and secret domains ruled by a conspiracy of custodial officers is, simply, ridiculous.

Jane “Duh” “It seems to me you have a hatered for anything that takes YOU out of the spotlight. You are nothing but a whinger. Get a life.”

Your opinion of me is a matter of complete irrelevance and quite honestly, that you cannot spell “hatred”, would suggest the rest of your existence is as misguided and instantly forgettable as your capacity for spelling.

Unfortunately for you, i never kowtow to the demands of those who would seek to appoint themselves as arbiters of public taste. So you will just have to suffer me and my continued exercise of the right to post on a public opinion forum.

G'day Bernie, Your book 'Intractables' - Hell has a name: Katingal, was given to me to read following my release from the Bay in October,2006. I was an Australian Regular Army soldier, a professional killer, trained and paid by the Federal Government to protect the freedom of those places and peoples as my employer directed. I too was a CMF 'grunt' but with 2RNSWR. On my return from my second tour of Vietnam in 1971, I was unceremoniously tipped out as "Not suited to be a soldier." My passport to the Bay was brought about by the actions of some extremely overzealous Ds, where I copped a 22yr whack on the top, with a 16yr non parole. The CCA quashed the original sentence and ordered a new trial. The Supreme Court granted bail and I am now on daily bail sign ons. There are some things I want to discuss with you about the Bay, MRRC, Justice Health and the screws on escort with the daily truck service to all courts in NSW, but not in the public arena.

I have just commenced reading the replies in this Post, and I am dismayed to see the prejudice and bias represented by nameless and faceless contributors, some of whom may have been on one of my two juries or yet to be called up for jury service, and they already have a predetermined view of how those who allegedly have committed serious crimes should be dealt with. As my barrister said at my Appeal hearing, Presumption of Innocence does not exist in the NSW Justice system. Anyway, I'm not here to bleat about the conditions inside, you and I know the truth and that's what matters. The 'self righteous' and other single minded bigots and socially inept silvertails will keep banging the 'lock 'em up at all costs' until they find themselves doing a lagging - then there might be some refocusing and useful debate - or possibly not. Democracy has its Zen.

I grow tired of people who post comments on articles written by crims or ex-crims. They get up on their high horse and pass judgement because someone has written about events that correctional administrators have been getting away with for years. Next time one of you swear at a copper how about we let him take you into the station and beat the crap out of you then dump you in the cell where nobody knows that you are even in 'police custody'. Then you are set free and complain to who? The police? The courts? Who do you report this violation of your rights as a human being? Imbeciles! When you find your sorry ass in prison and breach their laws and find your self in solitary then 3 screws come in and beat you senseless all because you told a screw to get f-ed. I am sorry Bernie that people have no concept of what took place all those years ago. I was part of the Maitland Riots and whent to Administrative segregation for six months under Bates' rules. Its about time society knew exactly what corrective services were doing to inmates and what caused all that strife back then, Bathurst, Maitland, Parramatta and Goulburn. Stay cool and I enjoy reading your articles. I am lawboy because I am in law school and hope to be alwayer one day, fingers crossed.

hey bernie, you came into my university last friday and i just wanted to thankyou for giving such a real account, and confirming my belief that the prison system fails in its apparently intending purpose of reform and rehabilitation. with 60% of the prison population being incarcerated for their second offence i think we can pretty much say that prison as it exists now is extremely ineffective designed to make politicians look good and give the public what they want in order to secure votes. is it right to generate a cycle of perpetual violence by placing criminals in gaol and treating them like dogs? no, because like you said, as soon as they leave they act like dogs again because they have been treated as such. and for those of you who say (albeit sarcastically) should we give them a holiday to the gold coast? if it reforms and changes their behaviour why not? is that the intention of punishment? to stop the action from happening again?

Hi to all you good people, who have contributed to this thread...

I find it interesting that Bernard Thomas MATTHEWS (BTM) has built a substantial following, as some sort of 'pseudo authority' of what allegedly occurred at/in the KSSU (Katingal), during it's operation as a gaol.

As I've stated herein, and in several other articles, (ad nauseam) that I too spent time in Katingal, longer in fact than Mr. MATTHEWS! I was a Prison Officer.

Several contributors have praised BTM for his candid and erudite exposure of the many sordid events that he claims took place there.

I couldn't care a 'tinkers cuss' what BTM alleges about the place.

However, when these claims seek to vilify the good fame and character of quality, Professional Prison Officers, who are no longer in a position to defend themselves. Particularly against these scurrilous accusations and unsubstantiated innuendo, from such a wilfully perjured individual. Then I get a little cross!

As I've offered previously, if any of you good folk wish to put a question or questions about the KSSU, I will endevour to answer them truthfully.

Kind regards...sungwu.

Col Rouge you are all over this website I'm 53 years old and I've never heard of you,what were you in prison for unpaid parking fines.I lost my brother in Parramatta 24/12/1971.What for $400 over unpaid fines he shouldn't even have been there as he was in the army at the time.The police deliberately waited just days before Xmas ,which just happened to be his birthday, before they executed the warrant.The cover up that followed was monumental both by the police and prison authorities, the army was never notified that he was incarcerated which under Federal Law stated they should have been.So does that make me a victim after the fact,my whole family still suffers today. We are still waiting for justice.