David
An excellent post.
Well research -well presented.
It's good to see someone with the courage to standup for those who are downtrodden, but who are not deemed newsworthy.

Horus, Some progress at last. Cutting through the propagandist waffle and bypassing the garden paths, it appears that you "agree that Gaza and the West Bank should be returned" to make way for "a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital." Now for the devilish details: Is that "returned" to the PALESTINIANS, and does it mean ALL of the West Bank to the Green Line in the west and the Jordan River in the east? Are the Israeli occupation forces to be completely and unconditionally withdrawn? When is this to take place? Are all the Israeli settlements to be dismantled and the settlers evacuated? Finally, justify by reference to international law Israel's retention of the Golan Heights.

Strewth
What no criticism of my 1967 war commentary?
No sarcasm?
No sneers?
Are you feeling well?

I gather that I am being too accommodating. You're like a boa-constrictor -every time I make a concession you tighten the coils & that becomes the starting point for the next round of concessions. A bit like your allies the Palestinians, taking advantage of the good natured Israelis,beying for more each time they pull back, but offering no concessions of their own.

But let’s talk business –how about some corresponding Palestinian concessions.For Israel to withdraw and feel safe there has to be few fundamental changes in Palestinian/Arab society. We are told that the Palestinians are the most educated & ‘progressive” in the Arab world, but they have nothing like the open society of Israel. In Israel you will find groups openly supporting the Palestinian cause, you will find people openly repudiating the Talmud- you won’t find parallels in Palestinian society. So as a precondition to Israeli withdrawal let’s have:
1) The disarming of all militant/extremist groups.
2) The application of liberal western style anti-vilification laws to all Palestinian territories( & later all Arab states).
3) The fair portrayal of Israel & the west in Palestinian media (& later all other Arab media)
4) And how about a self critical Palestinian/Arab academia

I will keep an eye open Strewth-If I see pigs flying around, then I will know you can deliver on your side of bargain.

Dear Horus
thanks for ur kind words. You are also doing a fine job.

If I may, I'd like to address one point you made:

"a Palestinan State with East Jerusalem as its capital would be reasonable"

I'd agree that to a non Jew , and specially to a Muslim this would seem reasonable. I say "Muslim" rather than "Palestinian" for a reason. The issue over East Jerusalem is not primarily Geographic, it is Spiritual. While possibly even most Israeli's don't think too seriously about the heritage aspect, it should always be remembered that the Temple Mount is as central to Jewish Identity as 'The Land' is to Indigenous Australians. More so I suggest, because Israel only came into being around the concept of the Oneness of God, and "His dwelling place" (to use an anthropomorphism) in Jerusalem.

Have a read of I and II kings, Chronicles.. see Solomons and Davids Prayers in regard to this. Read Ezekiel, the majority of the book towards the end is solely concerning the restored Temple and People.

We had a Jewish Christian at our fellowship the other day, and he explained how Priests are already being trained, furniture and vessels etc are all being prepared for the next Temple.

Even one of the authors of a recent Article here Barry COHEN is qualified to be a Jewish priest, but only those with his surname, which comes from the sons of Aaron, Levites.

So in conclusion, I believe East Jerusalem will never be negotiable while there are right wing/Orthodox Jews having a voice in the Government.

It would be tantamount to lets say Indigenous Aussies having developed superior weaponry, taking control of most of Australia, and then givng back 'The Land'..... it aint gonna happen :)

Horus, See what you've done? You babble on about boa-constrictors and what do we get? Boazzz-Monty Python! Seriously though, you're acting in bad faith. I asked you to clarify YOUR statement that the WB should be returned along with East Jerusalem. To the 49 Green Line? Complete military and settler evacuation? They're simple enough questions for someone who sincerely meant what they said. But now you're hedging. Why? Perhaps you didn't mean a word of it? You do after all suggest you've been "too accomodating". The Israeli boa-constrictor swallowed 78% of Palestine in 67. As of now, it's swallowed around 40% of the remaining 22%, and is still going strong, squeezing the Palestinians into bite-size bits just waiting for the next squeeze. And the Palestinians are supposed to come up with concessions!? Horus, you're as Monty Pythonesque as your friend, the Boazzz. Fess up, you didn't mean it in the first place, did you?

Strewth,
Still the Palestinians can consider themselves mighty lucky.
Had they been living in liberated South Africa or Zimbabwe (being Caucasian as they are),they might have ended up with 0% of the land- in the name of the redistribution of wealth.
(And no sympathy from Strewth to boot!).